injectors flooding on 88 tsi

[Caliber308]

Thats what it reads dc volts with key on and probes into connector.The voltage never changes when the arm is moved.

All hoses good no splits,cts wires were strppied backed with new connectors.I stripped back the wire for the injectors,

Clean then with emory cloth,soldered clips,heat shrink with the correct color code on the primary and secondary.Ecu harness

hasnt been spliced that i can see,timing is tdc compression stroke pointing at number one plug,turbo is fairly new and spins freely.Dznutz had a tps that read 5 volts constant so its not too uncommon.

 

There is a simple way to check your TPS.In the 1987 FSM it is on page 14-61,62.It is called reading error codes.The same page can be found in your 1988 FSM. Code 3 (TPS) is what you want to check with the Self-Diagnosis procedure.Just to let you know about seeing .48 to .52 volts from the TPS. I set it with the car at idle (running).But only after doing the steps in sequence for resetting the ISC/TPS. Read the information in the FSM Fuel section.

 

Bill

Edited December 30, 2010 by Caliber308

[rcm]

Yes.From pin 1 to 3 which is power still reads the same.Voltage doesnt change when the arm is moved.Caliber

in my 88 fsm it is 14-65 which shows resistance table.Which is i believe a sweep test with a anolog which i did.

It showed erratic movement when i moved the arm from idle to wide open.But as i look at

the page i may have read input voltage on pin 3 instead of output on pin 2.

Edited December 30, 2010 by rcm

[Caliber308]

Hook up the Red probe + from the Voltmeter to Terminal no.2 (That is the one in the right hand corner of the plug).Hook up the Black probe - from the Voltmeter to Terminal no.1. (That is the one on the top of the plug).Turning the TPS clockwise should increase the output voltage.When doing this, move the TPS towards the clockwise position SLOWLY!!!! and read the voltage change. It should read smoothly in a increasing manner.

 

Bill

Edited December 30, 2010 by Caliber308

[rcm]

Went back out and checked again.Pin 1 to 3 4.82 v,pin 1 to pin 2 over 4 volts with no change when arm is moved.

[Indiana]

Keep slowly working the TPS arm back and forth, I've seen them stick then start working again. Is it cracked? Inside its just some contacts rubbing and they are dirty so movement might clean them up. You can run the car with the TPS it won't matter just let it hang there. I thought they would run with it not plugged in I can't remember have you tried that? They do go bad though. If you give up on it you might cut the end open and get some electrical contact cleaner and try that, its just a disc or two and tabs sort of like a fuel sending unit.

[vbrad511]

If you're break the seal on it I'd drill a tiny hole in it on the rounded section, on the bottom,out by the flat outer edge, shoot the cleaner in the hole and work the adjustment back and forth a bit and let the excess cleaner run out. Maybe do it another time or two and do your sweep test again. If it seems to have come back into range let it dry out, then put a small dab of silicone oner the hole. I've had very good luck with many electrical componants by just letting a little cleaner work it's magic. Edited December 30, 2010 by vbrad511

[rcm]

I will try that and see if i can get it to work.The case looks good no cracks and the wires are good.

[DzNutz]

I would pull the TPS off and check to be sure the plastic arm is lined up correctly and not broken. It is 2 screws to get it off. It looks to me like it is stuck at the WOT position telling the ECU you have it floored. Take the 5 minutes to pull it off, I bet you find the plastic broken or not aligned correctly with the throttle plate.

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q272/DzG54BNutz/G54B/connectorviews.png Yoou want to be between the ground and the output.

 

 

But seriously, I suggest just pulling the TPS and seeing what is going on between it and the throttle Plate. If the plastic on the throttle shaft is broken, your TPS may be fine just not warking because the shaft is not sweeping the TPS.

 

Just my 2.6 cents worth since I have just recently dealt with this problem on another car. TPS was installed un aligned and broke the plastic shaft piece first time the pedal was mashed.

[rcm]

I already had it pulled when checking voltage and the arm is good.Still read the same voltage on the tb and off.

[DzNutz]

I already had it pulled when checking voltage and the arm is good.Still read the same voltage on the tb and off.

 

How about the plastic piece on the throttle shaft? Is it good also? I've seen them split around the shaft so they wont turn with the shaft.

[rcm]

I checked that and it seemed good.I cleaned the connector ,wires with contact cleaner.Input voltage is 4.84 and now

it starts at 0 and as i move arm it increases.But on set procedure it will only go to .23 full clockwise.

[rcm]

That did seem to help with both injectors running together,but now the primary is spraying and dripping

at the same time.So new injectors are on the way.

[DzNutz]

I checked that and it seemed good.I cleaned the connector ,wires with contact cleaner.Input voltage is 4.84 and now

it starts at 0 and as i move arm it increases.But on set procedure it will only go to .23 full clockwise.

 

May not be aligned correctly with the throttle shaft piece.

 

The plastic piece on the right needs to line up inside the TPS arm on the left.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q272/DzG54BNutz/RMSQ/TB-55.jpg

Photo from PQ

[rcm]

I checked twice to make sure of alignment.I have fuel rail back off so i will check again but cleaning it

with contact cleaner seemed to fix alot of it but i didnt drill a hole in it to spray some

cleaner in there.

[Indiana]

Once the TPS is installed it will never go all the way to zero and to 5 volts, you are left with a range of about .5-4.5 or a tiny bit more. The idle motors position right now if effecting the position of the throttle shaft when you release the gas pedal. The motor will have to get warmed up for the CTS to tell the ECU then the idle motor will begin to retract looking for the range of the motor position sensor. You just need to put the TPS back on and with the key on and not pushing the gas pedal set it for about .5-.55v. If you push the gas pedal to the floor you'll have about 4.5-4.6v.

 

Order some spark plugs?

 

 

 

 

[rcm]

Ok i will back off some closer to where it was.Your right oreillys or auto zone dont carry the plugs.

[Shelby]

if the tps is bad it's bad , no use going on another 2 pages talking about a bad tps,,replace it and move on

 

i did have one 88 that would fire both injs with the tps at full throddle at start up ,, another would fire both injs because of a bad igniter signal from the dist

 

but unpluging the tps should have stop'd the dual inj fireing

[Caliber308]

Ok i will back off some closer to where it was.Your right oreillys or auto zone dont carry the plugs.

 

If the TPS is shot, it doesn't matter what Spark Plugs you install. Go to Trances site and read P.Q.s S.O.S.manual about how to go about checking the TPS out. I agree with Shelby, we have told you how to check things and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.One of the most positive things i've heard is your dumping the stock injectors in favor of some after market ones.

 

Bill

Edited January 1, 2011 by Caliber308

[rcm]

well the plugs are a suggestion but not a requirement.The tps was showing full voltage and after cleaning connectors

has gotten better again a suggestion .I was going to replace it and then told check it and then told to replace it and move on.I have delphi injectors coming,i have a line on a working tps.My inquiry here was a problem i havent run into

and was looking for a direction .I am not a newbie and have had six of theses cars.Just needed a refresh on some things

after being dormant for five years.I do have a fsm ,and knowledge of these cars although do not know everything.The point

was that both injectors are firing under start up.The info on the rest was really in material until this problem is corrected.I understand the tps reset but only can proceed until engine is warm,cts sending signal etc,so until the first

problem is corrected these other suggestions cant come till later.

[vbrad511]

One more thing to keep an eye on through all of this is your oil. If you're flooding like you say, you need to make sure your oil isn't saturated with fuel (it can and does happen with these motors). If your oil's contaminated change it, IMMEDIATELY, with something cheap, mayeb even twice and then change it with good stuff. Don't run it anymore, don't crank it over, get it taken care of NOW. Fuel in the oil will toast your bearings in notime. It'll take a couple changes to get everything out of the cooler and lines.

[rcm]

Yes i have been watching the oil.Normally gas will sit on top of the oil and read above the dipstick.So far the oil

reading is just below full mark.But i did use a cheaper oil when i changed it for that reason,because the oil that was in there did have about two quarts in it.

[rcm]

update.Put in new delphi injectors after cleaning fuel rail,new fuel filter,it does start now but runs rough

and the secondary doesnt run at same time now.I have another tps coming to switch out,and changing the oil again.

Probably plugs are fouled again after cleaning them.So report back tomorrow after tps switch out.

[vbrad511]

If you've been running rich and flooding for weeks, you need new plugs. Once they get saturated you can pull them and try to clean them, but they'll likely never fire correctly again. Spend the $8 and give it a try. Bet it takes care of things.

[Caliber308]

One more thing to keep an eye on through all of this is your oil. If you're flooding like you say, you need to make sure your oil isn't saturated with fuel (it can and does happen with these motors). If your oil's contaminated change it, IMMEDIATELY, with something cheap, mayeb even twice and then change it with good stuff. Don't run it anymore, don't crank it over, get it taken care of NOW. Fuel in the oil will toast your bearings in notime. It'll take a couple changes to get everything out of the cooler and lines.

 

Excellent advice.

 

Bill

[Caliber308]

update.Put in new delphi injectors after cleaning fuel rail,new fuel filter,it does start now but runs rough

and the secondary doesnt run at same time now.I have another tps coming to switch out,and changing the oil again.

Probably plugs are fouled again after cleaning them.So report back tomorrow after tps switch out.

 

Does it run rough only on cold start up? Sometimes you cannot clean a fouled Spark Plug enough. The best advice I can give you is to replace them, or if they are only fuel soaked..Light a match,lighter or Bernz-o-matic torch to them and burn off the gas, then brush the electrode lightly with a Brass brush. How long after cold start up does it take to idle normally? Or, does it smooth out at all when hot?

 

Bill

Edited January 5, 2011 by Caliber308