Maxed out head - Titanium Valves - Port and Polish

[RWDAddict]

All the work was done by BrianPaul98 better known as the owner of Lower Shores Performance.

 

parts and labor done on a brand new Clearwater NJV Head

• Race Valve Job - $125
  
• Full Port and Polish - $250
  
• Del West Titanium Valves 7mm - $400
  
• Machine Head for Oversized Valves - $50
  
• Del West Titanium Valve Spring Retainers - $125
  
• Del West 7mm Lash Caps
  
• Viton High Temp Valve Seals - $28.99
  
• Schneider Performance Single Valve Springs - $55 (no need for double due to the Titanium’s weight)
  
• Schneider Performance Custom Grind Camshaft $165
  
• Valve Cover Gasket Kit - $23.99
  
• Hydraulic Lifters - $58.98
  
• Roller Rockers 1.6 ratio - $75
  
• Rocker Shafts w/Springs - $20
  
• OEM Intake/Exhaust Manifold Studs/washers/nuts $67.94
  

 

I paid $1564 in parts and labor not including the new cast head. So i'm into this head for $2100 but i'd sell it $1500 right now.

[kidjc]

Has this head been bolted on, run? What's the grind on the cam? Why are you sell'n it? Thanx

[NudeLobster]

oh man, I was planning on a race prepped head for my winter project, but I don't have that much right now. I'm watching this closely...after Christmas I'm buying this if it's still available. I'm also 20 minutes from you, so I'd be coming to pick it up. I'll keep in touch

 

-Justin

[QuestFan]

Just what I am looking for. Gotta scrape up some money. Milage? Is the cam streetable? Edited December 12, 2011 by QuestFan

[RWDAddict]

Cam is a custom grind from Schneider, from what I recall it's a tad more aggressive than their standard 292. It has roughly 100 miles on it. I had the SDS system on there but after much trouble shooting ends up I need a new crank and that was just the last straw for me. I'm going to throw a carburated V8 in there and be done with it. On a side note it was all assembled by Lower Shores as well.

[Skullzaflare]

Cam is a custom grind from Schneider, from what I recall it's a tad more aggressive than their standard 292. It has roughly 100 miles on it. I had the SDS system on there but after much trouble shooting ends up I need a new crank and that was just the last straw for me. I'm going to throw a carburated V8 in there and be done with it. On a side note it was all assembled by Lower Shores as well.

the 294h? i have that one, its the biggest they do now. they dont seem to offere a 292, if i remember right it was 274/284/294

[Dred_85.5_TSI]

292 is a mech cam anyway maybe its this?

http://schneidercams.com/296RH-14_U-FW.aspx

[Skullzaflare]

292 is a mech cam anyway maybe its this?

http://schneidercams...RH-14_U-FW.aspx

thats a 296 lol

also, in first post it says "Hydraulic Lifters - $58.98" so i doubt it has a mechanical cam regardless lol

[Minagera]

Schinder does custom grinds bigger than 292 or 294.

 

http://minagera.org/gallery/var/resizes/Cars/Conquest/Random/300%20cam.jpg?m=1323820268

 

Also Bump for a HELL of a head.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Minagera

[brianpaul98]

thats a 296 lol

also, in first post it says "Hydraulic Lifters - $58.98" so i doubt it has a mechanical cam regardless lol

 

 

Please tell us the difference between a SOHC hydraulic, solid and roller cam. I would like to hear it.

Edited December 14, 2011 by brianpaul98

[RWDAddict]

BrianPaul ordered it for me. It was all sent to Sully and I never got the paperwork on the cam so i'm not sure what exactly it was. I just remember him telling me it's bigger then their 292/294 (whatever close enough) and that it was a custom grind.

[Skullzaflare]

BrianPaul ordered it for me. It was all sent to Sully and I never got the paperwork on the cam so i'm not sure what exactly it was. I just remember him telling me it's bigger then their 292/294 (whatever close enough) and that it was a custom grind.

its actually engraved on the end of the cam, where the cam gear mounts

 

 

Please tell us the difference between a SOHC hydraulic, solid and roller cam. I would like to hear it.

everything but the metal

296rh Roller Part Number: none

Grind Number: 296RH-14

Intake Duration (gross): 296

Exhaust Duration (gross): 296

Intake Duration (.050”): 240

Exhaust Duration (.050”): 240

Intake Valve Lift*: .488"

Exhaust Valve Lift*: .488"

Lobe Separation: 114

Intake Valve Lash: .000"

Exhaust Valve Lash: .000"

RPM Range:

3500-7500

*Based on 1.6 Rocker Arm Ratio

 

292f Solid Part Number: none

Grind Number: 292F-14

Intake Duration (gross): 292

Exhaust Duration (gross): 292

Intake Duration (.050”): 244

Exhaust Duration (.050”): 244

Intake Valve Lift*: .465"

Exhaust Valve Lift*: .465"

Lobe Separation: 114

Intake Valve Lash: .008"

Exhaust Valve Lash: .010"

RPM Range:

3500-7500

*Based on 1.4 Rocker Arm Ratio

 

294h Hydr Part Number: 14629

Grind Number: 294H-14

Intake Duration (gross): 294

Exhaust Duration (gross): 294

Intake Duration (.050”): 240

Exhaust Duration (.050”): 240

Intake Valve Lift*: .465"

Exhaust Valve Lift*: .465"

Lobe Separation: 114

Intake Valve Lash: .000"

Exhaust Valve Lash: .000"

RPM Range:

3500-7500

*Based on 1.4 Rocker Arm Ratio

[RWDAddict]

I'll have to take the valve cover off and see if i'm able to pull anything from it. Not easy since it's in storage

[RWDAddict]

Bump

[RWDAddict]

Willing to take payments

[Dodge2004srt4]

 

 

Please tell us the difference between a SOHC hydraulic, solid and roller cam. I would like to hear it.

Well lets see, they are both metal, called bump sticks, usually round to a degree, and have lots of cool measurements 99% of people have no clue what they mean. Other than the difference in the actual specs, they work in any combination. Ive had cams installed in other engine where they said they required spring upgrades and stuck with stock. Never had a problem.

 

Highjacked thread over. Just couldnt resist a joke......bumpsticks kick arse!

[brianpaul98]

Well lets see, they are both metal, called bump sticks, usually round to a degree, and have lots of cool measurements 99% of people have no clue what they mean. Other than the difference in the actual specs, they work in any combination. Ive had cams installed in other engine where they said they required spring upgrades and stuck with stock. Never had a problem.

 

Highjacked thread over. Just couldnt resist a joke......bumpsticks kick arse!

 

 

Pretty much what I was getting at. When talking about a V8 Chevy a roller cam has significant differences over a flat tappet cam. When talking about a SOHC 4 banger it doesn't. 4cylfury is running a similar custom cam which I have ground for specific applications.

[randy]

Is this head good for a street car?

[RWDAddict]

It's a mix race and street. When I brought the job to Brian I told him that I wanted a head merging on the side of race only but still be streetable. So don't expect a perfect idle, it's going to be a bit lobey but it'll street just fine. When I had my car running it's best (which still sucked) it never died on a light and starting from a stop just fine. I could just never get the timing right due to the magnet reading issue I was having.

[RWDAddict]

Bump

[RWDAddict]

Price Drop!!!!!!

 

$1300 FIRM

[Tim_C.]

 

 

Pretty much what I was getting at. When talking about a V8 Chevy a roller cam has significant differences over a flat tappet cam. When talking about a SOHC 4 banger it doesn't. 4cylfury is running a similar custom cam which I have ground for specific applications.

 

Not sure what you mean by that? The cam difference is every bit the same as any non-roller to roller difference, if not more.

Stock hydraulic or mechanical slip rocker cams have lobes designed for slip rockers. Lobes that aroller rocker will at least function on, but not normally recommended due to the timing of the cam is also designed for slip rockers with a more gradual ramp and narrower duration tip for less time at full lift.

A roller cam for our engines is designed for roller rockers, and a slip rocker CAN NOT NAVIGATE the lobe. Big, big, big difference and every bit as big as any non-roller to roller comparison. the lobe is too steep for a slip rocker. The lobe is wider at the top for more time at full lift. However, that time is needed in order to match the time from a slip rocker lobe. A slip rocker is curved at the end to EXTEND it's time at full lift, and get there faster. Thus a steep ramp is not required as much. The advantage you get with a roller lobe is that it gets the rocker there faster with the steep ramp, and holds it at full lift longer for much more flow through the valve during the same duration of time. Thus the TREMENDOUS advantage with a roller cam. The slippers work very well to help achieve more duration at full lift, but not anywhere close to what aroller cam can give you.

 

Brian: You marry a non-roller cam with roller rockers, which is rarely recommended since the lobe is designed for a slipper. A slipper that will help the cam gain lift faster and stay at full lift longer. Put a roller rocker on it, and the rocker opens much slower and goes past the tip much faster, for a performance decrease. However, I think you have certainly found a workable combination with your grinds to where the loss with a roller rocker is greatly decreased. Meaning that the gain from the added lift and your particular grinds married together are very strong runners and perform very well. Still, a roller grind cam with roller rockers and the correct grind for the application, will net much more than any slipper cam will with the same roller rockers.

 

V8 Chevys with standard hydraulic or solid lifters are essentially the same as our slipper set-up except they have a pushrod to the rocker. A V8 roller cam set-up changes to a roller lifter because the essentially flat bottom standard lifter will not navigate the lobe of the roller cam, just like our roller cam requires a roller rocker. Same difference, same losses and gains involved between the two.

 

I apologize if I don't understand you correctly and that you weren't saying there is very little difference. I just want it to be clear that there is a whole lot of difference, and the same exact ones that are involved in V8's.

[Tim_C.]

RWD:

Last I knew, Schneider doesn't make a 'Perfomance Valve Spring'? If you are referring to the HD spring, then yes, it is enough for your cam and rocker combo, but not because of the titanium valves. Those valves help trmendously, but wouldn't come into play as far as floating the valves until well over 6500 RPM. The HD springs will hold standard, or stainless valves just fine to at least 6500 RPM on any slip rocker cam under .550 lift.

 

There are other big advantages with the titanium valve and retainers such as making it much easier to open and close the valve for less drag. Married with the right combination of parts, it can help to gain RPM faster. They would be a much bigger advantage if married with a roller cam too. Then your statment would be very true and more of a factor.

 

An issue I see that is a bit suspect, is that you have married a hydraulic lifter with lash caps. That is very risky due to the lifters tend to lose their pump at times. This loss of pump will cause a temporary loss of proper lash to make for a gap where the cap can jump out easily. Even a gripping cap with a deep skirt can jump out. Normally caps are only used in mechanical set-ups where it can never jump out. However, I am running such a set-up, but we preloaded the lifter much much more than a stock preload so there is much less chance of a loss of lash control. Not saying it won't work, but it definitely needs a very tight lifter preload and brand new oil with a very watchful eye on prompt oil changes. If a cap comes out, it can easily ruin the head cast and cam.

[RWDAddict]

RWD:

Last I knew, Schneider doesn't make a 'Perfomance Valve Spring'? If you are referring to the HD spring, then yes, it is enough for your cam and rocker combo, but not because of the titanium valves. Those valves help trmendously, but wouldn't come into play as far as floating the valves until well over 6500 RPM. The HD springs will hold standard, or stainless valves just fine to at least 6500 RPM on any slip rocker cam under .550 lift.

 

There are other big advantages with the titanium valve and retainers such as making it much easier to open and close the valve for less drag. Married with the right combination of parts, it can help to gain RPM faster. They would be a much bigger advantage if married with a roller cam too. Then your statment would be very true and more of a factor.

 

An issue I see that is a bit suspect, is that you have married a hydraulic lifter with lash caps. That is very risky due to the lifters tend to lose their pump at times. This loss of pump will cause a temporary loss of proper lash to make for a gap where the cap can jump out easily. Even a gripping cap with a deep skirt can jump out. Normally caps are only used in mechanical set-ups where it can never jump out. However, I am running such a set-up, but we preloaded the lifter much much more than a stock preload so there is much less chance of a loss of lash control. Not saying it won't work, but it definitely needs a very tight lifter preload and brand new oil with a very watchful eye on prompt oil changes. If a cap comes out, it can easily ruin the head cast and cam.

 

So you'd recomend a cam and rocker change? Also they are HD springs. Brian should be able to answer exactly how it was put together. I'm a driver and basic maintenance knowledge base so this is a little over my head.

[Tim_C.]

 

So you'd recomend a cam and rocker change? Also they are HD springs. Brian should be able to answer exactly how it was put together. I'm a driver and basic maintenance knowledge base so this is a little over my head.

 

Well, I assume Brian needed to use the caps for reasons other than making the valve longer for more preload? Maybe the titanium valve tips are not hardened, thus the need for a hardened cap? Only he knows. That was my predicament years ago when I used custom length stainless valves. No one offered hardening for them back then, so I had to use a cap. I learned the hard way that they can come out unless a few planets are properly lined up to make it work. One of which is the added length of the valves was all above the retainer groove, so I could then use a gripping cap with a deep skirt. The deep skirted cap will not work on the stock length above the retainer groove. I have 26K miles on it now, so it is reliable, but it wasn't easy or inexpensive to accomplish it back then.

 

It may be set-up fine? I just know that the set-up must have several additional measures taken to run it properly. I figure Brian did it correctly, but it is good to know that for sure when one spends that amount of money for a head. It would be great if the actual preload was listed with it. My first attempt at doing that lasted about 200 miles before a brand new lifter with good oil and pressure decided to lose its pump. It happens more frequently between starts. They can bleed off while sitting if a piece of dirt gets in the ball seal.

 

I don't doubt it is worth it. I had more than that in mine with less porting, etc...

 

As far as the rocker and cam change, I would try it first and then decide from there. That is given I am confident with the set-up of the caps with hydraulic lifters.

 

Degreeing the cam is more of an issue too when changing the times the valve is opening and closing, which is what running roller rockers on a slipper cam does.