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Short stroke suspension


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#1 SFBMX88

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:04 PM

So far, the fronts are done....

Starting with the parts:

Refreshed my Artinist coilover(70mm ID springs) set with some longer Tein springs I found at 949racing http://949racing.com...acesprings.aspx

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1988/1989 Toyota Celica FRONT strut housings(MUST BE 88/89 AS EARLIER MODELS HAD FINER THREADS FOR THE GLAND NUTS) - you really only need the upper portion of them above the spring perches, so if youre at the junkyard and have either a big pipe cutter or cordless sawzall, have at it!
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MR2/Celica Alltrac front strut inserts - these include brand new gland nuts for the Celica/MR2
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T3 camber plates
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Energy Suspension poly bump stops
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Some perch rings made from scrap
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Edited by SFBMX88, 18 March 2010 - 11:31 AM.






#2 JohnnyWadd

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:17 PM

why not just cut and thread the stock housing?

#3 SFBMX88

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:24 PM

Top is a REAR SHP shaft assembly, middle is a front Tokico, bottom is KYB AGX
quite a difference in length!  Tokicos also normally use a spacer in the stock housing to take up about 1 inch(more pics on second page).

.

AGX+Front Celica housing


AGX pokes out abit from the top


I was going for a total unloaded stack height(measured from mounting flange to top of camber plate) of about 22.5-23 inches, so I cut about 4 inches off the top off the Starion housing.  Save the scraps for later!  You never know when you can use them!


Also needed to use an aluminum spacer to take up the rest of the space in the housing, about 1 3/8 inches




See the gap from insert to housing?  The AGX inserts have a slightly smaller diameter than regular Starion inserts, and Ill address that in the very next post!



The reason I use the 88/89 Celica FRONT strut tubes is for the threaded portion.  KYB AGX inserts include brand new gland nuts!


Luckily, a friend of mine was in a machine shop class, so he was able to turn them down abit so they fit right into the Starion strut inner diameter


Outer diameter of machined Celica strut tube:


Inner diameter of Starion housing:


a view from "inside"

Edited by SFBMX88, 27 July 2009 - 12:24 AM.


#4 SFBMX88

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:44 PM

PUT IT ALL TOGETHER!!



Fits right in!  Also, with it being machined the way it is, it goes in STRAIGHT!!!!


A friend of mine owns an exhaust shop, so he helped me out with the welding duties


Just to be safe, I cut out some sheet metal and stuffed it down the housing to take up the extra space around the insert:
mine was about 5"x10.5"





Filled them with a bit of oil and locked the gland nuts down:



TOYOTA GLAND NUTS FTW!!


original artinist coilover spring next to newer, longer Tein spring(had to get longer springs because cutting down the strut housings would put the coilovers out of adjustment range with the old springs)


LOOK AT THAT SLACK!


I ended up using the same rubber o-rings that were originally included with the coil over kit to reinstall the sleeves


threw in some new Moog lower ball joints while I was at it





Still quite a bit of clearance from the wheel!  (SHP 8" with 225/50R16)



Before
so much wasted travel in that droop...


After


Actually had to bring the height down about 3/4"


OH YEA!  This Flatty has WIDEBODY suspension on it!  Although Im sure you could do all this with the flatty strut housings...
http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=76965

Edited by SFBMX88, 04 July 2009 - 03:02 PM.


#5 SFBMX88

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:47 PM

I think I couldve cut the Starion housings down a bit more, but this still works and I have a bit more margin to play with.  I know some others have cut these down shorter, but everyones different.  I was aiming for 22.5"-23" stack height of the front suspension, unloaded, measured from the top of the camber plate to where the spindle meets the steering arm, and I got roughly 23".  Ive got maybe 3/4" more adjustment left to raise the car back up if I wanted, but I doubt Ill use it.

I now have a few more strut replacement options available to me(KYB, Tokico, Koni, etc,) but most importantly, no more blown inserts!!  biggrin.gif


QUOTE (JohnnyWadd @ Jul 2 2009, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
why not just cut and thread the stock housing?


Because the gland nuts that are included with the AGX inserts have a diameter that is much smaller than that of the Starions.

Starion nut bottom, AGX nut on top:
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QUOTE (SFBMX88 @ Jul 28 2009, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
UPDATE 8-3-09

Modified front strut tube length is roughly 13 inches from the very top of the housing to where the tube meets the spindle....




I think it would still be safe to go 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch shorter if you wanted.


Heres the stock length from the very top of the tube, to where it meets the spindle:



Edited by SFBMX88, 03 August 2009 - 12:52 PM.


#6 SFBMX88

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:04 PM

Lessons learned...

Measure twice, cut once!  

Tried welding the Celica tubes on without the nice machined portion and it came out too crooked for my taste, so I had to go back and rethink it all.  I also had to get another pair of Celica tubes.  That time, I just went back with a pipe cutter and took some right off the top of the strut...

NO!!!


BLAH!!


FAIL!!


GTFO!! I had to hammer it because I was so disgusted.

Edited by SFBMX88, 02 July 2009 - 10:08 PM.


#7 SFBMX88

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:16 PM

Rears are still in the works.....

Based off of blown SHP housings:




Used some scrap from the front housings to patch over the holes I had to cut out:









#8 JohnnyWadd

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:14 PM

will the longer springs bind at full up travel? i am guessing not since the perch is lower


#9 v8starion

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:35 PM

Great thread! Good pics with measurments.  Seems your project is comming a long great.
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#10 SFBMX88

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE (JohnnyWadd @ Jul 2 2009, 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
will the longer springs bind at full up travel? i am guessing not since the perch is lower



Not at all!  Infact, there is about a half inch of slack when the suspension is unloaded.


QUOTE (v8starion @ Jul 2 2009, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great thread! Good pics with measurments.  Seems your project is comming a long great.


Thanks!

Big thanks to Derek(D_Venable) for his thread/advice on the MR2 short stroke conversion.  That was a huge help!

Edited by SFBMX88, 03 July 2009 - 12:00 AM.


#11 thagremlin

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 02:27 AM

looks good.. i have the same camber plates..



#12 SFBMX88

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 02:37 AM

QUOTE (thagremlin @ Jul 3 2009, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
looks good.. i have the same camber plates..



How do you like that setup?

#13 Komeuppance

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 06:01 PM

Good work!!  How's it ride now??

How much did those inserts cost you??

BTW, the MR2 tokico illuminas also include new gland nuts that thread into stock starion housings.  Good times.

-Robert

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#14 SFBMX88

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 12:22 AM

QUOTE (Komeuppance @ Jul 3 2009, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good work!!  How's it ride now??

How much did those inserts cost you??

BTW, the MR2 tokico illuminas also include new gland nuts that thread into stock starion housings.  Good times.

-Robert



Thanks, inserts are about $95 each at Summit.

Are you sure the MR2 Illumina gland nuts fit Starion struts?  Im pretty sure they're smaller in diameter.

Not quite ready to judge the ride until the rears are installed, but if the AGX inserts are set to 4, you can feel every little bump in the road.

Edited by SFBMX88, 04 July 2009 - 12:26 AM.


#15 Komeuppance

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 12:48 AM

Yes, 100% sure.  I have everything apart, just haven't found the time to cut and weld.  I've had everything since... November, or December...

UCW458 sent me some front struts from an 87 I believe, tokico gland nuts are the same thread pitch and thread in nicely.

-Robert

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#16 SFBMX88

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 01:19 AM

QUOTE (Komeuppance @ Jul 3 2009, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, 100% sure.  I have everything apart, just haven't found the time to cut and weld.  I've had everything since... November, or December...

UCW458 sent me some front struts from an 87 I believe, tokico gland nuts are the same thread pitch and thread in nicely.

-Robert


You bought the Illuminas new?  The KYB part number I used had a much smaller diameter gland nut than the Starion.

I believe Derek has Illuminas too and said that the diameter is different.

QUOTE (D_Venable @ Feb 14 2009, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here's a pic showing the gland nuts...


As you can see, the front non-shp gland nut is recessed to capture the insert, with a shim ring for a tighter fit against the KYB replacement, and the rear SHP is "solid".

ALSO, both the non-shp, and shp gland nuts have the same thread, and can thread into either of the housings.


Edited by SFBMX88, 04 July 2009 - 01:31 AM.


#17 Komeuppance

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 01:54 AM

Haha, ok, I was misinformed.  The nuts I got are KYB gland nuts are for the Starion.  MR2 is infact smaller.

So my solution without me knowing is, order KYB gland nuts for Starion and they will work with inserts, Tokico or KYB.

-Robert

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#18 patra_is_here

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 02:06 AM

sweet thread

#19 D_Venable

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 06:28 PM

Very nice.

I'm planning on doing the same thing with left over material to patch the rear SHP adjustment hole, just haven't gotten to it yet. got a local guy who said he'd tig it all up for me, not sure what he's gonna want though, hehe.

I need to get another set of front camber plates, to figure out what I can do with these airbags, hehe

Very good idea on the Toyota strut tops, I like the way you went about it too, very nice work  thumbsup.gif
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#20 SFBMX88

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 12:33 AM

Thanks Derek!

Got abit of an update here.  Originally set up, the upper spring hat would rotate on the gold aluminum block for the camber plate when turning.  I had been using some grease to offset the wear, but figured the grease would attract too much dirt.  After about a week of use, all the grease was dirty and there was already some wear on the aluminum pieces sooo......




I ordered some needle bearings and matching washers from http://www.mcmaster.com/#5909k35/=2ng01w
With a 7/8" inner diameter, I figured it should be okay on the 22mm strut shaft since its not really a point of precision.

The total thickness of the new assembly was close to 9mm, so I had to readjust the springs to compensate for the increased stack height..



NO MORE METAL TO METAL WEAR!



Edited by SFBMX88, 08 July 2009 - 12:34 AM.





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