ColdScrip Posted July 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 ok just like the clutch petal the master will freely flow fluid thru it's self if the lines are open,,, i was not meaning for you to pump the petal to bleed out the master,,but loosen all lines untill fluid is driping out the line fitting ,, you can use a couple shoop towels or a bundle of paper towels to soak up the fluid , if you use shop towels besure to place them where you will not later grab one and use it,, this can cause brake fluid to get where you do not want it if fluid will not flow freely out of the master , it's posible the actuateing rod on the booster is too long,, the manual tells how to measure and adj this rod again to clearify things has this car ever had good brakes and if so what did you do to loose them The car was bought without it running. So I never really knew how the brakes performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdScrip Posted July 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Well Shelby, I went to bleed the rear of the master cylinder and decided to do that brake booster test as I heard the whish. I turn the engine on, then without having my foot on the break, I shut the engine off. I push the brake pedal down once and hear a whish. I let off the brake pedal and push again and the pedal is stiff. Thus there is only one push of the pedal that maintains an "assist" after the engine has been turned off. Would you say the problem is the brake booster then? Would the brake booster malfunctioning create the squishy pedal feel? Edited July 10, 2009 by ColdScrip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) do a test of the booster vacuum but if you go by the FSM 1 push means the booster has a fault all the booster unit is is a big vac resivor,,it should hold what ever amount of vacuum that builds up,you need to check and see how much vacuum it is seeing , but keep in mind the hose to it is one that can fail internaly and you will not see any problem,, replace the hose with a new piece of 3/8 hose and do the test again,, you can also use the boost gauge as a vacuum tester with proper hose adaptors durring an average petal push down very little vacuum should be use'd unless the booster has an interal leak , and a pushing thru booster can make the brakes apear to be bad , check this raise the rear of the car and spin a wheel push the brake petal and see if the wheel is stop'd with little petal travel or does it have to go nearly to the floor,,( do this with no vacuum to the booster ) if the wheel stops at the top of the petal , i'd say the booster is the problem but if you have to push a long way befor the wheel stops it could be a conbination of things one being the booster bad we know the petal will be hard to push,, we' are not looking at that ,,we're looking to see how much petal movement it takes to stop the wheel from turning Edited July 10, 2009 by Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdScrip Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Alright Shelby thanks again for seeing me through this. I took the mightyvac out and stuck its hose into the booster vac port. This way I am not even using a hose to test it. I started to pump and it would not hold vacuum. I then went over to my brother's brake booster and tested his. I had it up to about 25 vacuum and it held it. Thus my brake booster does NOT hold vacuum. Can I begin to remove it or are there other tests I should do first so that the next one works properly? As for seeing where the wheels stop without vacuum to the booster: there is a good 1 inch of play before the pedal gets a little harder and the front brakes engage. During that 1 inch of play the rod does push into the booster but it feels like the booster does not push into the master cylinder. A little bit more pedal later and the rear brakes engage. So here is what I have concluded from these two tests. The brake booster is bad because it does not hold vacuum AND the brake booster rod is out of adjustment because of the 1 inch of play before the front brakes engaging. So do you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 go ahead with your booster swap, make sure you check the actuateing rod adjustment before you install the master cyl, also if the master cyl is wet on the end that goes into the booster,, it's time for a reman unit actualy check the petal to booster arm adjustment as well the rod to master cyl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdScrip Posted July 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Little update: Adjustments will be checked during installation on both sides. The old brake booster is about to come out. I am putting another brake booster in that would take vacuum but would not hold it. We found the leak and epoxied it. Now that brake booster holds vacuum perfectly. So I will see how long it lasts. I should get that booster in Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Little update: Adjustments will be checked during installation on both sides. The old brake booster is about to come out. I am putting another brake booster in that would take vacuum but would not hold it. We found the leak and epoxied it. Now that brake booster holds vacuum perfectly. So I will see how long it lasts. I should get that booster in Thursday. Fun job? :biggrinumbrella1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdScrip Posted July 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Fun job? :biggrinumbrella1: Took me an hour to get the booster ready to come out. Same amount of time on epoxy. Wasn't bad. Helps to be young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 I bet the booster fixes it. I towed one to the shop the other day with very little brakes. Had to pump it 3 times just to stop the tow vehicle. Pedal going all the way to floor. The reservoir had gone dry while sitting, so I just filled it to get it to the shop. I did an ABS elim so the equal length header would have more room. I didn't even bleed anything and instantly got a stiff pedal. Of course I will bleed them before driving it, but it was amazing how a simple ABS removal stiffened the pedal. There is a lot of air in it because I put a new line on it and I still haven't bled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 a stuck control valve in the abs unit will cause rear petal pressure to bypass this in turn causes a very low petal you should test ans operation from time to time, it's easy you just depress the brake befor turning on the key,,you'l hear a distinck CLICK if the control valve is in working order as the key is turn'd to the on position , this works on my caravans also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UlrichWolf Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 The booster WILL fix it. We just fixed the exact issue on Maxzillian's car. We bench bled, bled the hell out of the brakes my way, his way with the Mighty-Vac, the shop's way with the pressure bleeder......... The new booster fixed it. Apparently, when he removed the booster to pull the steering box, he had done something to it, and it compromised a seal in it. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 remove'd booster to aid in removeing the steering gear box wt.... just how in hell did that help,, the gear box falls out the bottom once the starter is remove'd ( ( lots easier then the brake booster i asure you ) but of course if you realy want ease of removeal pulling the engine assy is the way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdScrip Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 The booster fixed the issue. My breaks feel exactly like my brother's now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 great.. kind of figure'd it would, still trying to see how removeing a booster would aid in removeing a steering gear box on the other guys reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UlrichWolf Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 great.. kind of figure'd it would, still trying to see how removeing a booster would aid in removeing a steering gear box on the other guys reply Perhaps you should ask Maxzillian about that, as he was the one that did it, not this "other guy". I learned a long time ago to not question other people's methods. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdScrip Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I would like to add that it now takes about 3 pumps to lose the booster "assist: to the brakes once then engine is turned off compared to the 1 of the failed booster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxzillian Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 remove'd booster to aid in removeing the steering gear box wt.... just how in hell did that help,, the gear box falls out the bottom once the starter is remove'd ( ( lots easier then the brake booster i asure you ) but of course if you realy want ease of removeal pulling the engine assy is the way to go What pulling the booster did was give me a nice clear view of the top of the steering box where I could access the steering coupler and hydraulic lines. Also, it gave someone the chance to stand above the car and help guide the box in/out. I'd say removing the hydraulic lines would have been darn near impossible for me without having the boost out of the way so I could use a crows foot. The only problem was that in removing and reinstalling the booster, I jammed it into place and damaged the internal valve. The brake pedal was mushy, but you could lock up the brakes with hardly any pedal pressure. I ended up driving to Nationals like that and eventually just unplugged the vacuum line out of frustration and ran the car with manual brakes. That worked pretty well. Installing the new booster, I hooked up a long vacuum line to the intake manifold, started the engine, and used that vacuum to help me suck the pull rod in to give the booster the room it needed to drop in. Worked like a charm. :party0049: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdScrip Posted July 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 What pulling the booster did was give me a nice clear view of the top of the steering box where I could access the steering coupler and hydraulic lines. Also, it gave someone the chance to stand above the car and help guide the box in/out. I'd say removing the hydraulic lines would have been darn near impossible for me without having the boost out of the way so I could use a crows foot. The only problem was that in removing and reinstalling the booster, I jammed it into place and damaged the internal valve. The brake pedal was mushy, but you could lock up the brakes with hardly any pedal pressure. I ended up driving to Nationals like that and eventually just unplugged the vacuum line out of frustration and ran the car with manual brakes. That worked pretty well. Installing the new booster, I hooked up a long vacuum line to the intake manifold, started the engine, and used that vacuum to help me suck the pull rod in to give the booster the room it needed to drop in. Worked like a charm. :party0049: I unthreaded the bracket that goes on to the pedal in order for me to have enough room to put the booster in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowquest Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 were you guys installing the booster with the master attatched? Mine was apart when I put the booster in and don't remember having any trouble getting it in. The car does have a magna intake, which seems like it would make it even tighter, but it slid right in for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxzillian Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 When I removed it, I still had the clevis attached. Likely the damage was caused then. Master cylinder detached, of course. Installing without the clevis, it was still tight and had to be forced in place. Pushing in the pushrod gave it all the clearance I needed when I installed the new booster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdScrip Posted July 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 I installed it with the master cylinder not on the booster. No real need to install it while on the booster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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