pitboss Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 (edited) I've read some have issues with their car not running right because the 1G MAS sits lower in the air can than the stock MAS when connected to the stock lid. Who's having or not having issues? How does your set up drive etc..? Can a 1G lid be used on the stock air can to raise the MAS a little, but will the accordian hose fit? Edited April 8, 2009 by pitboss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I had a 1G mass fitted to stock ( conquest) lid and canister on my white car. Ran fine- bit rich. Much betterr now that i have a gm mass and translator. Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 (edited) Yeah, the sensor is pretty close to the stock filter plate inside the can, but it looks like it can still breath, since the bypass tubes face the air coming in from the fender wall. Tight fit over all though. Edited June 24, 2009 by pitboss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRaider Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I've read some have issues with their car not running right because the 1G MAS sits lower in the air can than the stock MAS when connected to the stock lid. Who's having or not having issues? How does your set up drive etc..? Can a 1G lid be used on the stock air can to raise the MAS a little, but will the accordian hose fit? I put the stock MAS in the 1G air box and got a nice gain. The 1G air box seems to flow a lot better. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I had to believe the flow just wasn't enough. Like you say the stock box is very very short - the 1g mas almost bottoms out. I used the 1g lid and strapped the 1g filter to it with mini bungees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierquest Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I use it, seems to work fine. as said it does seem to sit close to the bottom of the can so it could hamper performance I guess but it would really be hard to tell with out tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 no sir there is not enought room for a good air flow,, and thats that , sure it will run but at it's best ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 If I can get my hands on a 1G lid, so as to pull the 1G mas up a couple of inches, would it still strap down to the stck air filter portion correctly (don't know if their the same oval shape)? Can I still use the accordian hose, because that's all I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Two things you can consider: 1) take the seating plate from the bottom inside the stock aircan and use that as a bottom for the stock filter - just eliminate the airbox. You'll need to attach the top and bottom obviously. Not challenging at all. 2) Buy a 1g filter which already has a closed bottom - different from the stocker. I am not certain that the ovals are close enough to mate up correctly. Again, attachment is pretty simple. The accordian hose will work as well as it ever did. :biggrinumbrella1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 The trouble I think happening here is I want to keep it all looking as stock as possible, for smaog checks, but keep the 1G MAS incognito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Duh, sorry - I just remembered that #1 will not work. It doesn't resolve the depth problem you already have - which is why I went # 2. Smog? Not on a 1g mas anyhow. Keep your stock mas setup for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 (edited) Duh, sorry - I just remembered that #1 will not work. It doesn't resolve the depth problem you already have - which is why I went # 2. Smog? Not on a 1g mas anyhow. Keep your stock mas setup for that. Edde, your onto something here. I measured the distance tfrom the stock mas to the bottom of the sotck filter plate. It's 2". I then onbolted the the plate and measured the distance from the bootom of plate in place (i.e. where the botoom of the 1G MAS just about sits) and it's 2 1/4" distance to the bottom of the air can. That's 1/4" MORE clearance THAN SToCK!. So the distance is better! And the filter is slid up on the 1G MAS tightly so it's not going anywhere! 1 problem: The bottom of the mas would get unfilter air then, when it comes into the air can. The sides are all filtered, but the bottom ishn't. Need a oval filter that is about 2.5" linger than stock. Crap! This could work somehow, and keep the stock look. Edited March 15, 2009 by pitboss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I got it! I took the 1G MAS out of the stock sized K&N filter I got. I plugged that bottom nipple on the air can box. I pushed the filter all the way down into the stock box. It ends up wedging itself down in there about centered and about .5" off the bottom. Then just put the 1G MAS back into the filter and snap it down. Voila! The top of the filter sits 1.5" down from seating against the inside of the lid, but the air enters the MAS way down at the bottom through the filter, so who cares if you can see 1.5" of the top part of the MAS (if you have a square cut into the top of the box like I do and most others). The 1G MAS keeps the filter from moving around too sits it takes up most of the space within the filter. I'll tape off the 5 small holes in the bottom of the can to seal them off. All the air will come in straing through the filter or down a little through it into the MAS, and the cold air from the fender enters the box from the top part of the can and will come down through the filter too. I could buy some filter cotton stuff too and tape it or glue it down over the metered honeycomb at the bottom for further filtering if any air drops all the way to the bottom and creeps under the filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Man this is useless without pics I knew nothing about a KN filter. :biggrinumbrella1: No way a 1g fits with more clearance in a stock aircan that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) Yeah, theres 2 1/4" between the bottom of the air can now (I took that plate out that the filter sits on) and the bottom of the 1G MAS. So I have 1/4" MORE CLEARANCE now than when the stock MAS was in their, in stock condition mind you. This mod solves that clearance problem when I first stuck the 1G MAS into the air can in stock condition, and there was only like 1/4" clearance between the bottom of the plate (when it was in there in, as in stock condition) and the bottom of the 1G MAS. So this actually works. I drove it around yesterday and it runs pretty close to the stock MAS, and the filter stayed in place, so the clearance issue proves out to be solved, since it runs almost like OEM. It's not real rich as others have described, except while idling in Park (its an automatic). It's a couple bars richer. Idling in Drive is MUCH better. Smoother and about 100 RPM's higher. Smoother everywhere really. WOT shows to be just a hair leaner. By 2 bars. It's still in the green when WOT. The only complaint I have is I still have a momentary drop in idle while in Park for a second every 10 seconds or so, just like when I had the stock MAS on. This mod didn't fix that, but everywhere else is smoother. I'm going to call K&N and try to find out if they make a replacement filter that is 1.5" taller than the one they make now for our cars. Maybe for some other car with the same design filter, just a little taller. Then the filter would come all the way up to the lid and would be securely pressed down and in place. I noticed also yesterday, that once you put the MAS (connected to the lid already) into the air filter, and rotate it to lign up the clamps, it ligns up with the filter pretty good, as the filter is rotated a little also in the same direction when you push it down into the can so it gets lodged into place. They both rotate in the same direction and lign up good. So a stlightly taller filter is all thats needed. On a side note, others have said that the stock MAS would benefit also from a little more clearance, when in an air can. This mod for the 1G MAS in the stock air can would work beautifully for it also, since there would be an ADDITIONAL 2 1/4" clearance for it. Thats 4 1/4" clearance for the stock MAS in this modded condition! And if you have the 1G connector hardwired into you harness, you can just cut the side plastic off of the old stock MAS that would've interfered with the connector sliding down and plug you 1G connector onto it. No need to switch back to the stock connector if switching back to the stock MAS. You can keep the 1G connector hardwired correctly for life! I'll update if I can find that filter. If anyone already knows about a K&N filter that is like ours, but is 1.5" taller, POST IT HERE PLEASE! *NOTE* A stock filter wont work with this mod. It has a metal ring at both ends and is reinforced throughout, and the filter needs to give a little to squish down into the bottom of the can. A really long cone filter with a tip that is closed off, and a base that is oval like our filter could work also. If the base was round, but small enough to fit inside the can that could work also. The air can is ALMOST round, so a round based K&N could work here. Just so long as it's big enough inside to fit the 1G MAS. Edited March 16, 2009 by pitboss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) Called K&N. They said they can lengthen their replacement filter by 1.5 inches no problem, and probably even block off the bottm part of the filter with their signature rubber, or whatever the material is, like they do in most of their cone filters. be maybe $75-100, but they'd have to work it up to give an exact quote. This still puts the filter ~.5" from the bottom, and I'd like to get as much clearance for that 1G MAS sitting in it. There doesn't seem to be any one filter that can be used to do everything (i.e. use same upper "base" diminsions as their stock replacement, then taper down to fit down to the bottom of the can, which is a full 9" but leave enough room inside for the big and long 1G MAS. Some cone filters come close, but might not leave enough room within for the top or bottom part of the MAS(or fit inside the can) and their not oval shaped. I'm thinking of calling back and asking for a quote that uses the stock replacement diminsions, down to about 7", where that piece of the can extrudes inward and changes the shape of the bottom of the can , THEN tapers inward steeply all around for the last 2" to fill the bottom, and put a nice rubber bottom piece in too. This would clear the whole MAS, and allow the filter to reach the bttom of the can for maximum clearance. This filter could be used also if switching back to the sotck MAS, so it's not a waste at all. Just a lot of good cold air flow. Edited March 16, 2009 by pitboss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 The thing that comes to mind for me is that folks like a cut can or no can at all here. I mean it's great if they want to make some stuff (for a price) but the stock can is restricted by the diameter of the intake pipe. No amount of filter area will compensate for that. It's stupid simple to get the 1g lid and strap a paper filter ($10-$12) to it and hear the whistle But folks who need to get smogged must keep their SQ mas around. Mine is gold to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) yeah, theres never any getting around the size of pipe that feeds the turbo. Even if you go 1G lid your going to use the same, or close to the same size dia. hose. I'm just trying to stay stock looking on the outside, with better internals. I will probaqbly upgrade to that mookeeh pipe also that feeds the turbo. The box is all opened up inside and there is lots of room in there. It gets cooler air too. My box is cut too on the top. I also have high flow injectors and good stock injectors I'm playing with to see whats the best combo. Either way, a longer filter is in order. Edited March 17, 2009 by pitboss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF600 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Yes the K&N is a tight fit. I drilled a few holes on the bottom of the air canister to allow more air flow. I forget but it was like 1 1/2" holes maybe 2" I forget. I did not want to cut the side of the can up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I got one of those ahp's and while it's a net plus over the accordian (it's already bought) it's expensive and is not easy to fit. Those two things shouldn't go together IMO. Even without the full airbox it's funky and you'll need T clamps for certain. Some trimming might help I haven't messed with it. With the full airbox I could only set the box with two bolts. For the price I wouldn't do it again. I'd cut some curves and get em welded. Other than that it does fit the extra vac lines etc very well and it won't split open like an accordian. It's one of the few things that's never been made cheap and good and readily available for the stock quest. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) for _hits and giggles I put the stock mas back in and it flows alot more air now, with that plate outta there and just the K&N stock replacement squished down into the bottom of the can. I was studdering a bit before at WOT with just my high flow injectors in and the air box in stock form with the stock MAS before, but now the stock mas compensates with all that room and extra air flow and theres no studdering anymore. This will have to be a must do mod once the right air filter can be found and if you have high flow injectors. It might be too much air flow for the stock injectors. Didn't try it so not sure. I'm sticking with the 1G MAS though since I paid for it and it flows just a little more air. Had to take that small oval honeycomb out to get it to flow enough air with these high flow injectors I just got though. Boost is great with it + my new high flow injectors, but around town isn't the greatest. The idle is hit or mis a little now. It runs great everywhere else. I'm running a 588cc. pri. and a 1150cc Rochester type sec. from FIC. The pri. isn't a Rochester type so it doesn't spray a mist like pattern, more straight like. That's why everyone has to get the richer 650cc so you don't run too lean at idle, which is what's happening to me. Live and learn I guess. I get great MPG though :character0269: Boost is great and steady rich. I've been test fitting and looking at K&N filters and I'm thinking these might fit finally: http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RU-3050 http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RC-5046 Tried these and they didn't work. The tips fit fine all the way down in there, it's the opening and middle section that aren't big enough for the 1G MAS: http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RF-1021 http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RF-1027 Edited March 18, 2009 by pitboss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierquest Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 there was a guy here not to long ago who used a stock 1g airfilter with the metal bottom and removed the media and just rtv'ed his stock K&N in place then used the 1g lid to clip it on. at least I think that is how he did it. that way he did not have to buy a new k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 (edited) Just wanted to add a little update. I got the K&N filter: http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RU-3050 from Autozone for $46.00 and it fits great. The 1G MAS slips right down into it easily with lots of room inside the filter. I think this is about the same price as the K&N for the OEM set up, but this has a closed off bottom at the cone tip, and will allow you to get more airflow into the MAS, whether it be a stck MAS, or the 1G MAS, allowing you more power. You have to push it down into the stock can about an inch, but it will conform to the shape of the can easily (it only changes 3/8") which is an oval, and will push all the way down into the can, giving your 1G MAS 2 1/4" - 2.5" clearance between the bottom of the 1G MAS and the bottom of the filter (or 4 1/4" clearance if using the stock MAS), which is also the bottom of the can. So no more running excessively rich from the 1G MAS sitting right on top of the old stock filter plate. The 1" clamp flange "lip" seals right up to the bottom of the lid's inside nicely too. I had about 1/4" of the filter's "lip" sticking up just beyond the edge of the can in the front since the bottom of the can has a wedged side in the front, but when I put the lid in place, it pushed the front of the filter's "lip" down all the way into the can so it matched the rest of the filter, so everything fits all the way down in the can great and nice and tight and sealed. It drives great, and offers just a little bit more kick at the middle and top end than with the oval OEM style K&N filter. This would be the best way to go for those guys that want to upgrade their performance on the cheap by switching to the 1G MAS (this filter can be used however with the stock MAS and works better than the stock K&N filter replacement) without having to also find a 1G lid/clips/giving up stability or mounting abilities or giving up oem look since it uses everything you already have. This is a pretty cheap mod. - Just take out the stock filter plates 4 little screws at the bottom of the can and remove the plate - And change out the filter, with stock or with 1G MAS, and your set. This is also mainly for guys who intend to stay mostly stock with some incognito go fast mods, or stock looking because of smog inspections. The only give away is the larger 1G MAS pigtail connector. I kinda doubt though the guy testing your car will know that you have the 1 G MAS 7 pin connector on (I soldered and hard wired mine on) instead of the stock 6 pin MAS connector, because everything looks the same from the outside except for that. Maybe this could be added to the FAQ as a new mod for the stock upgrade / 1G MAS guys. Edited April 8, 2009 by pitboss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 the stock air can has an inlet of less then 2" as long as that is in place no air filter will make a huge diff , also all air comeing in must travel arround the out side of the filter befor it can travel thru the filter ,meaning it needs clearance between the filter and the houseing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) Might had been better if I had posted pics of my air box to help show what I was working with. Sorry about that. This filter is not a straight oval though. It's cone shaped, so it tapers down as it nears the bottom of the air can. There is space between the inside of the air can and almost all of the filter. Only near the very top does it seat against the inside of the aircan, and the 1" flange seals completely against the lid, which is good. I have a huge square cut into the top of the box as most do, so air can get into the bottom of the MAS very quickly, right through the opening and through filter. It doesn't have to travel all the way down the sides of the can and then into the MAS. However on full boost, cold air from outside, via that fender opening, mixes with the air coming through the square opening and is directed into the over flow tubes that are right in front of the cold air inlet inside the box. This cooler injection of air helps supress detonation. I've had the 1G MAS/1G cone filter clipped on combo and I ran leaner mixtures as it's totally open to all the heat under the hood. So this set up, in my opinion atleast, is a little better. Edited April 14, 2009 by pitboss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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