s.kodai Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 i was asked to pass along some info to you guys. it seems some of you are breaking driveshafts. for those of you who have not heard of these guys: http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com this is why you should buy one: "IF YOU CAN POSSIBLY TWIST OUR TUBING OR BREAK OUR WELDS...WE'LL REPLACE IT FREE!!!" they say they can mate any tranny to any rear end, so i'm thinking they could build some for us. i don't have any real info yet, and any i do get will be of limited use to you guys (i have a 4l60e tranny for my lt1 swap). but i'm pretty sure they could hook you guys up. and the heavy duty shafts max out at 295 plus shipping. no shipping if you wait 45 days. i think we would use "diagram k" for out apps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 i never heard of anyone breaking a driveshaft. U-joints maybe. as for something stronger, prettymuch any driveshaft shop can make a heavy duty center section the thing is, it will weigh a ton. i was working on making an aluminum one but its next to impossible to do. nobody makes alumiunum yolks to use for the center section so the only way would be to have someone CNC them and that is no joke, it has to be extremly centered and balanced and will cost a lot. so the only option left is to go carbonfiber. i am working on this with a large volume manufacturer. so far it looks doable and should be around $600-700. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.kodai Posted July 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 you didn't really explore the site did you? denny's amke two different types of aluminum driveshaft. one made out of 6061-t6, and one made out of even harder ally. they use all aluminum slip yokes. the 6061 is 295, and the hevay duty is 460. and if you read the site, they say why they don't do carbon fiber. the cf driveshafts use aluminum slip yokes, and of course the c.f. has to be GLUED to the slip yokes. hmmm, glue or weld? you gotta know that the glue isn't as strong as a welded d.s. and you will NEVER get a warranty like denny's from anyone with a c.f. shaft. denny's doesn't even warranty the ally ones like the steel ones. i understand with the 2.6l, you probably will never get near the limit of the stock d.s. even a race motor can't output enough. but for those of us with REAL h.p., i think we need a better d.s. i have been told that those of us with a v8 swap snap the stock d.s like the twigs they are. of course i have twice as much torque as the 4 banger. carbon fiber is a waste of money from a performance standpoint. they LOOK really cool, but can't handle the horsepower, and have a very short lifespan. i know a lot about c.f., and it just comes down to not being a good substance for this app. c.f. is too flexible. at 6 grand, athat thing would be whipping about like a wet noodle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 I wish he could make an alumium driveshaft for our cars but I am sure he cant. as I said, nobody is making aluminum yolks that will fit our cars. if he can, i will get one for sure. you might also want to do a little more research about carbon fiber. yes they are glued but that is not a weakness and no starion V8 or 4 cylinder will every break or twist one off. contrary to what you said about carbon fiber shafts being flexible, they have no flex at all and that is their only downside if you can call it that. some serious racers complain that it has no give at all and is puts a little more strain on the drivetrain and is also easier to break tracktion. my friend builds some of the fastest camaros and corvetts on the west cost and they have never had any issues  with CF driveshafts. and if carbon fiber has no performance value and just looks good, then all those F1 and cart racers should just start driving chryslers on the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.kodai Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 f1 and cart cars use them because they are a few percent lighter than the same on ally. Â neither one of these examples speaks of the durability of anything used in them. Â you know as well as i do that MOST of these parts are replaced on a per race basis. Â exactly because they are not dependable. Â and all of the cf used on these race cars is the hot bonded molded cf, that costs four times as much as the cold stuff. Â one of the halfshafts on an f1 car costs more than mine and your cars put together, almost $30000 each. Â the barge boards on these things cost more than $10000 to have manufactured. Â i have seen a lot of cf shatter on the track. Â sometimes for no seeable reason, i.e. fatigue, or improper manufacturing methods. and if you do any watching of f1, you know that when cf breaks, it shatters catostrophically, usually ending in an accident. Â in the old days of steel and ally, stuff would bend, but the car could still be driven to the pits. Â you and i don't have the funds to properly use cf. Â sure you can get a honda valve cover made of the stuff, but that is no stronger than fiberglass. Â the REAL cf is way too difficult to manufacture for an automobile. P.S. all of the cf shafts i have seen use an ally ends, they glue the cf to aluminum. Â which is the real weak point. Â even of you got a real cf shaft, you still have weak aluminum ends on it. check this out: http://www.raikkonenkimi.com/costs.htm this page is in euros, 100 euros to 113 american dollars. that's 4500 dollars each for brake rotors. tossed after each race. 9000 for the engine cover. i am not sure exaclty what "lip of the car" is, but that's 5000. i couldn't find halfshaft, but scale these prices. i've heard 20 grand quoted on tv. just do a search on "formula 1 driveshaft" and see how many times that appears in the same paragraph with "cost him the race" or "retired with a". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeaston Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 OK, F1 and cart cars do not have drive shafts. If you're talking about CV axles or half shafts, I've never heard of a team using carbon fiber axles, they're all still good old steel (probably vacuum melted 4340). Remember that the CVs handle about twice as much torque as the driveshaft(if the vehicle has one). They will never use aluminum because in order to make it strong enough it would have to be very large in diameter, and the aerodynamic penalty would outweigh any weight savings, especially the splined ends would have to be really big, which means that the CV's would have to be huge... As for "gluing" not being strong enough, I'd worry alot more about breaking the aluminum yolk at the end. Like someone observed, the yolks are what break on our cars, do you really want one made of aluminum? The biggest benefit of a CF driveshaft is safety. If a steel or aluminum driveshaft lets go(or a u-joint) then you've got a huge aluminum or steel pipe swinging around and around at thousands of RPMs with hundreds of foot-lbs of torque behind it. If a CF shaft breaks, it basically unravels itself and turns into a pile of carbon thread. Not necessarily a feature we're too interested in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 The only bennifit about going to a aluminum drive shaft besides a small savings in weight would be if the drive shaft could be made to accept larger/beefier u-joints. I went through 3 pair of u-joints last year with my <implied> "weak 4cyl". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 from what i can find and i admit to not being as savy as some of you guys is the spline count on our tranny out put shaft, it's an odd number so we have very little to choise from,if the way of a reay made heavier unit , , but one of the easiest ways to lessen the strain on the drive shaft is to lower the rear end gears, that will reduce the tourqe on the joint and flange a sugestion from a drive shaft spealist was to have a steel sleve made and press on over the stock yoke, (while the yoke was very cold,) and then weld it to the yoke base to help give it more meat ,, of course a diff out put shaft seal would have to be found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I haven't done alot of research but I don't see why our yokes could not be welded on to a new unit that would except larger u-joints. The minimum we need is the splined yoke to fit into the tranny and the 4 bolt flange that fits to the torque tube right. As long as we have that and the correct length, it dosen't matter whats in between. We don't have to reinvent the wheel here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 ever one i've seen broken , split the frt yoke , not counting the usuall, cross breaking of the u-joints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuba Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 well lets see ware do i start. well if your (i went threw 3 u jounts last year) there is a problem other than the u joints. you should check the tranny mounts or the mounting points that hold the rear end cause the most common reason for breaking u joints is 1 drive shaft to rear end angle out of wack" degree's you should measure" 2 tranny mount worn or broken 3 the straps that hold the u joint into the yoke 4 bent yoke 5 wrong u joint"not seated tite!! 6 drive shaft has a dent or is out of ballance! remember that the u joint is the weekest point of the drive train and is ment to brake. and dennysdriveshaft is a bad a** place to get a replacement. i have a 88 GMC with a zz4 engine and it was natorious for having the last owner going to the store to get a new shaft after a good drunk and riping it out. he sold it to me for 5k and i raced a 2003 cobra svt and was winning till 4th and i droped the tranny and driveshaft out the bottom and he ran it over. the reasone it broke was bad mounts!! and shaft angle! so i have learned. and i aslo have upgraded to a nitrious express driveshaft and can now lay rubber in 3rd with no worrys for the drive train!! over all its a bad a** place for the bad a** rides!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow_quest Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 I just got off the phone with dennys Driveshaft....an they only do domestic cars (Barf). might be an option for the V8 swap guys but not for those of us looking for a heavier stock set-up. Yellow_quest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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