rack and pinion????

[Rusky]

Cool. 8)

How much longer?

 

Keep us posted Brian.

[Conquest351]

Cool. 8)

How much longer?

 

Keep us posted Brian.

 

HAHAHA

Damnit boy, don't rush me!  LOL  It's something I have shown Luis (Austin88ESiR) that we already have installed on a 65 Mustang here.  It's a Flaming River setup that I think will work almost perfectly.  I just have to have time and space to get my Quest in here to check it.  We have had so much crap in this shop lately I can't even walk out of my office anymore.  It may be a bit but I wil definately check it out.  I really REALLY want to get a rack & pinion system on my car if not just to clear the headers.

 

Laters,

 

Brian

[JustPaus_88TSi]

Here's a pic I ran across on Austarion.. So it's got the rack flipped for RHD.. But still, it's a pic.. ;D

 

 

http://2.6liter.com/userfiles/JustPaus/SQ%20RACK--PINION!.jpg

[ALANFROMPDX]

I was wondering about this link http://www.beatingyou.com/zerog/

 

is the 240 rack pinion next to a starquest crossmember?

 

if so, those 2 brackets are not used on our cars but is clearly welded to it.

If that is a starquest crossmember next to the pinion gear then I am thinking it has to be to hold a rack and pinion.

 

I wonder what other mitsu cars use the same crossmember as ours.

If we could find it then we would have a direct fitting rack to a stock crossmember.

 

These were all made in japan and if you have done your own wrenching on these starquests then you know they have all the connections for right and left hand drive.

 

My next question concerns the previous post with aussie rack.

 

do their starquest have a stock rack and pinion, if so  HELLO

 

anyone know for sure.??

[ALANFROMPDX]

I have a saturn with a rack mount just like it and realized we may be onto something.

[Richie_Rich]

Whoever comes up with a rack system first has to make sure the goemetry is perfect or it will be a waste of time.

The location of the rack is very important and needs to be considered along with inner tie rod dimensions.

 

I'm hoping to find enough time to lay out the goemtry and figure what will work.

 

TRW has a book of racks that includes dimensions and other specs.

 

Anyone know where there is an online site that describes how to lay out steering?

 

My firend used to run a race car shop and had all kinds of books on chassis design, but his partner walked off them when they split.

[ALANFROMPDX]

I am going to get measurements of 240sx rack later and also post pictures.

This is done all the time with cars.

Horsepower tv did it, overhaulin has done it and we can.

I am just a tight a** and do not want to buy new stuff.

the 240 sx is roughly the same size as our car and it looks to me to have a similar crossmember.

I think if we look into the companies that sell the rack conversion we will find the how to.

there has to be common rules of thumb on installing them.

[ALANFROMPDX]

I am going to get measurements of 240sx rack later and also post pictures.

This is done all the time with cars.

Horsepower tv did it, overhaulin has done it and we can.

I am just a tight a** and do not want to buy new stuff.

the 240 sx is roughly the same size as our car and it looks to me to have a similar crossmember.

I think if we look into the companies that sell the rack conversion we will find the how to.

there has to be common rules of thumb on installing them.

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/510_rack_conversion.htm

[ALANFROMPDX]

I am going to get measurements of 240sx rack later and also post pictures.

This is done all the time with cars.

Horsepower tv did it, overhaulin has done it and we can.

I am just a tight a** and do not want to buy new stuff.

the 240 sx is roughly the same size as our car and it looks to me to have a similar crossmember.

I think if we look into the companies that sell the rack conversion we will find the how to.

there has to be common rules of thumb on installing them.

 

here is one on a 510

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/510_rack_conversion.htm

The crossmember is basically identical, as are the lower control arms. The 240Z crossmember and lower control arm assembly will bolt on the 510 with no modifications

[artinist]

might also want to look at the rack on the 84-89 300zx, their front suspension is almost identical to ours.

[pure_insanity]

  hey guys.   whats all the fuss about aligning it in the car?  this isnt rocket science its brain surgery.   seriously, all there is to it is mount it so that the tie rods are straight out when the wheels are straight.   and mount it so the tie rods are flat when the car is at ride height.  this will keep bump steer as little as possible, but otherwise this install is so terribly simple from a geometry point.   the hardest part is to fit it to the crossmember and connect to the steering shaft.   ive seen racks used, old classics all the way up to mud drag race trucks.   nothing special at all about how they are mounted.

 

can anyone get the measurement of the outer tie rod end to  the other outer tie rod end?  at the spindle center point where the tie rod goes thru the spindle.   doesnt have to be perfect.  

[Dzone]

How about one from a Celicasupra 82-86

or a IS-300 might be the same width

just throwing ideas.

[Mark_T]

The biggest problem is finding the right size tie rod ends, and cutting the fire wall to run the double jointed shaft to the steering shaft.

Mark_T

[DJpowerHaus]

I agree that its not rocket science... if you've got the resources (time) to do it, then do it.  If the geometry is so wrong then go back and change itj.  

 

Assure that it will not break or lead to a catostrophic steering accident.  Go out and thrash it on a track or autocross course.  Maybe even record before and after track results or get several drivers and make it all scientific with skid pads and all that stuff.

 

And a 240 rack is just something I found that was similar.. its not the same nor is it perfect in any way... technically speaking the crossmember and lower control arms need to be changed for it to work "idealy".  Plus its almost too long (IS300 is way too long).  I got it because if I never used it I could sell it to 240 guys who eat those things up (HICAS racks).

 

If you want to get crazy.. (I plan on it) you can forget the tie rods being the wrong size and you can use 240 hubs.. and 240 coilovers!.. and 300ZX brakes!.. you'll need to make some lower control arms, drill some new holes for the top of the struts and you'll need tofigure something out for TC rods and sway bars (its suprisingly simple).  The issue here that I dont know yet is ride hight... we have ALOT of height and travel stock.. is it worth giving up?

 

So yeah.. do it up, make sure its safe, get some data and feedback and see if you need to revise.

[scum]

hi all, here to lay claim to the pic of steering rack. no, its still not finished  :-[

I had a magna rack installed be4, it only took 2 days and was all finished and done. I thought it was easy, too easy. it turned out that the input shaft smacked right into the block/bell houseing, one thing I just didn’t think about. to the best of my knowledge ALL Mitsubishi racks have this problem. and every other rack I found in Australia for one reason or another wouldn’t fit. I even had probs with a centre-steer setup. The rack you see in the pic is from a Leyland P76, not a common car. But the input shaft is on a 45deg angle and points straight at the starion column, so it only need 1 uni joint. I have all the steering geometry at home somewhere, but it seems the standard starion setup is way off the mark, due to the crappy swinging tie rods. With that rack there is 0 bump steer straight ahead and on full lock and anywhere in-between. Anyway, when I finish it I will post some info and pics if you want. But in the meantime if you come up with anything pls post on www.austarion.com.

 

BTW, for those of you who cant see why this is so hard, try it. The starion thwarts almost every attempt. Mostly due to its long lower control arms and narrow chassis.

[scum]

   this isnt rocket science its brain surgery.   seriously, all there is to it is mount it so that the tie rods are straight out when the wheels are straight.   and mount it so the tie rods are flat when the car is at ride height.  this will keep bump steer as little as possible

 

im no engineer, I am learning as I go but I am quite shore that will give you some funky geometry / bump steer once you leave straight ahead. the only way to do it is with numbers.

inner pivots of rack are to match inner pivots of lower control arms minus distance of Ackerman angle X2, inner pivots of rack are to match hight of inner pivots of lower control arms plus offset of outer ball joints, centre of inner lower control arm pivots to centre of inner rack pivots are to match distance between the centre of both outer ball joints. Or something like that. This way you can change caster and camber without affecting steering geometry.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[pure_insanity]

hi all, here to lay claim to the pic of steering rack. no, its still not finished  :-[

I had a magna rack installed be4, it only took 2 days and was all finished and done. I thought it was easy, too easy. it turned out that the input shaft smacked right into the block/bell houseing, one thing I just didn’t think about.

 

 

 can you elaborate on this point.   im not entirely sure i understand what you mean.

whats the chances you have any pics of it?   i do understand what you are saying with all the angles and measurements.   while i havent personally tried this so i cant speak from experience i just cant see it being all that difficult.  ive put r&p setups in lots of older trucks that only had like a 34"  wide frame so im not sure why the narrow frame would be a matter.  perhaps its time for me to take a closer look.

[scum]

sorry, no pics of that setup. but when you shorten a mitsubishi rack to fit a starion the body of the rack ends up quite short, to the point where almost all of the body sits under the engine with i think 53mm of the toothed bar (rack) sticking out each end, then the tierods on the end of that. so the input shaft (pinion) points allmost straight up with a uni ontop of that going to another uni then onto the starion columb. when you sit the engine in it hits that 1st uni / input shaft before it sits on the engine mounts. to avoid this you would need to leave the rack almost standard lenght but then your steering geomitery will got to s*** again. i hope this makes some kinda sence, i really need to get a pic or a drawring for ya. but if you look at my other pic try to imagine the input shaft stiching almost straight up then imagine an engine sitting on the crossmember. if this still dosent make any sence im sorry, i am not to good at trying to explane this stuff without pics and while drunk  ;D

[scum]

o' yegh. if you where to raise the engine 17mm (from memory) it would fit, but i am trying to lower it by 10mm to get a lower center point of gravity, but if that dosent worry you it would fit. btw, i have just bought an A187A from japan, as there are only a handfull in aus there is little info on them, i need to know if the crossmember and control arms are the same as the narrow body? cheers

[pure_insanity]

whats an A187A ?  it seems like ive heard that before.  is it an engine code?  

 

why are you so intent on using a mitsu rack?  why not something else, like say a mustang 2 rack ?   thats what most all the street rod people use and its available pretty easily.  i put a rack on an isuzu p'up for a friend of mine.  im not sure just what it belonged to but he bought it from a race shop.  his dad races late and super late model cars and he says its pretty much standard issue.  not to mention you can get it with a faster ratio or slower to suit your likes.  it went into the isuzu and looks like it belongs there.  tie rod ends was no problem other than the size of the tie rod end stud to the spindle.  the spindle was too big so i welded it closed a bit and used a tapered reamer to open it back up to the needed size.  other than that, it was a piece of cake.

[jr_ss]

A187A is our  car model number/code.... So in other words he bought a widebody Starion, to get imported to Aus.

[DJpowerHaus]

i welded it closed a bit and used a tapered reamer to open it back up to the needed size.  other than that, it was a piece of cake.

 

I need one! Can you send me info on reamers.  Is there a standard taper or anything?

[pure_insanity]

i dont know where to tell you to find any info on reamers.  best thing i can tell you is catch a tool man.  snap on, matco, mac etc. you might try a machine shop or a tool and die supplier. all of the ones ive got are hand me downs.   my family has been automotive related ever since the model T's.   ive got a couple reamers that are so old we dont know how old they are.  best i know there are a few different tapers.  maybe 3 or 4 for domestic stuff and like 10 or more for imported stuff.  most times you can find a reamer for a domestic that is close enough to use instead of a metric size.there isnt that much of a difference normally, basically all there is to be concerned with is the diameter and how deep the taper is.

[scum]

im not sticking with mitsi rack, i would like to but they dont seem to work. the one it they photo is a leyland P76 rack. i dont think we can get racks off the shelf here, most custom cars (speedway etc) just use whatever fits. and a mustang is not a common car around here. might see one evey 6 months or so. anyway, i like my current rack, it has very easy mounts, nice thick tierods, 45deg input shaft, 3.9 turns lock to lock, no pwr assist and just seems to work quite well.  does anyone have any pics of these 240 racks? or some more info? cheers all.

 

BTW, same q again, widebody crossmember / control arms vs narrowbody, any diff?

[Dcrasta]

Toyota supra (86ish) Rack might work.. Anyone checked into those? should be pretty easy to find these cars..