NudeLobster Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Driving out to a drift event to watch this morning and on the ride out there I would boost to pass people, ect. Car started to feel under powered and I saw that my AFRs were leaner than normal. under low boost it was like 14-15 instead of the 12-13 it normally is. I assumed it was my MAF-T gen 2 fuel controller so I tried richening the main scale and when that didnt work, I got worried. Then it started needing around 4-5psi to hold 70mph. at that point I looked at my main gauges and saw my temp was above 3/4 but not pegged. I pulled over immediately on the shoulder and when the car reached idle it just died. popped the hood and exhaust runners 2 and 3 were glowing red and the coolant overflow tank was boiling/overflowing. let it cool down hoping I didn't just crack my brand new race prepped head. Once it was cooled I started it and it was knocking and I looked at my boost gauge and I was pulling 14-15 hg vacuum instead of my normal 18. I shut it down and got it towed home. It idles fine but has a clear knock/mis. I got it towed home, pulled it into one of the bays at my dad's shop, and then we took my friends civic to the event.Now that I'm home, I'm here to get everything in my mind sorted out as to what I need to do to get it running. I'm going to start by dropping the oil pan and inspecting the bearings/crank. If needed, Bag o chips has a fresh machined crank I will buy, and I'll need the required 20/20 oversized bearings for it from DAD. I'm really hoping I can just put a new crank and bearings in, flush the oil system (how?), put the timing back together and put the pan back on and it will run. Is that what I should be doing? I can do a compression test but wont a spun rod show super low compression too? so there's no way to distinguished if its lost compression from the valves, or the piston, or the rod. I'm trying to avoid removing the head because I don't want to get a new ajusa and possibly have to have my head decked and stone my block again. Soo... yeah. I read that topic a few days ago about that guy who's brand new motor chewed all those rod bearings. I know i only lost 1 cause it still has a majority of vacuum at idle and idles fine (minus the knock and lower vacuum) As far as I can tell I'm not burning any fluid so I don't think I cracked the head. noticed a small amount of coolant leaking out the front corner of the HG between the head and timing cover. that was wet before, but not actively spewing or leaking...just wet. I was going to try to seal it with some RTV. It had a small amount trickling out from there when the coolant system was super pressurized and boiling. I will have to re RTV that anyways when I put the timing cover back on. I saw everyone saying to replace the cooler and lines from the metal shavings. Is there a way to just flush it out? see, my oil cooler lines are trapped in by the huge *DM intercooler pipes and its a nightmare to get those out, so I'd rather flush it out than have to pull all my pipes/MAS to get to those lines. I guess I could do new braided lines and just cut the old rubber ones on either side of the front clip and just leave that little section trapped by the pipes... I just am so depressed, frusterated, and done with working on the car. I was SO happy to finally be able to just drive it. yeah, it needed a dyno tune, but I street tuned it safe by going overly rich under boost, not lean, and i dialed in idle and cruising to a solid 14-15 afr like stock. I have about $200 and no time because May is the busy season at my work (greenhouse and nursery) so I work every friday, saturday, and sunday this month and getting a day off is boarder line losing job territory in may unless its a serious legit reason, and they will tell me having to fix my car is not serious enough. So, I will have no time to do it between school, AP tests, and work this month, but it needs to be done. and I will be borrowing money from my parents. 2nd day running the car gets backed into and gets paint damage on the front bumper, and now 2nd week running it freaking blows up on me. If I had more time and money I'd say F it and go carb'd 302, but its way faster and cheaper for me to just fix this g54. I don't have the time to part out my turbo engine, buy a new swap, and do the fab work, ect. maybe if I had a daily of my own, but I'm just borrowing my dads truck now. So much ranting. Sorry. Any suggestions/help appreciated. thanks for reading my life story, chapter 12. lol. -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 a 200 dollar beater car is the answer. Fix it over summer? (yes, that option sucks, but might be the best option for meow.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance_S Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Sorry to hear that bro. I feel your pain. I was heading back from school last fall. I was going 60 mph in 5th gear and had been for about 10 or 15 minutes...just cruising...and I bent a valve and was down to 3 cylinders. I limped it home but it was frustrating for sure. You always think you gonna break something when your heavy under boost and not just putting down the road. Sorry for your trouble. Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 You say you were running overly rich under boost, what were your AFRs? And the best way to go about this situation is to tear it all apart and look it over. The head might have been trashed from metal getting in the cam journels and there is no way to tell how many bearings have been trashed. As for the oil cooler and line it needs to be taken out and flushed with carb cleaner and an air compressor at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance_S Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 If you spun a bearing you will want a complete tear down, you don't want to replace it and go half tail just to put it back together and break it again, not worth the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchi934 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 You say you were running overly rich under boost, what were your AFRs? And the best way to go about this situation is to tear it all apart and look it over. The head might have been trashed from metal getting in the cam journels and there is no way to tell how many bearings have been trashed. As for the oil cooler and line it needs to be taken out and flushed with carb cleaner and an air compressor at the very least. He said his AFR under WOT was below 10 but not misfire rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidjc Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Sorry for your trouble... you seem to be a smart young guy, I believe you'll keep the faith & "Git Er Done!" Hang in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeLobster Posted April 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 correct. I misfired once from being too rich but was able to pull fuel enough. I also stayed out of full WOT like that. it stays at a good 11-12 AFR at like 50-80% throttle. Found out my dad's other shop (that actually gets business) has a hoist and stand. I will be pulling the engine and putting in that 20 over fresh crank from bag o chips and 20 over clevite bearings from dad. Also ARP rod bolts. i would go all out and deck/hone block and do new piston/rings, ect, but I 100% honestly don't have the time or money for that. I might lose my job taking days off to do the crank and bearings alone, but I'll avoid that. I hate that job and want to quite anyways. I'll flush the oil cooler and lines with the compressor and carb cleaner while its still in the car. I will see how much debris is in the oil tomorrow. I know its not the right way to do it, but if i can stay away from removing the head, I will. again, time and money. I spent all my money building the top end and timing and everything and time is still an unknown challenge right now. thanks for all the help and support guys. I really appreciate it.-Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strang3majik Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 I'm about to dig into an engine that sounds like it had a similar mishap...but I wasn't there for it :/ Good luck...hang in there, don't get rid of her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeLobster Posted April 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 It crossed my mind, but its not worth starting over with a new car. I just have to accept the fact that i wont have a car for about another month. i guess once im out of school at the end of the month, ill have ample time to fix it. LOL -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 When you start into it, I garantee it will need more than a crank and rod bearings. Chances are that the new .020 bearings won't fit your rod or main caps either. The block needs to go to a machinist.You have to ask yourself why the rod bearing spun. I guess I should back up and say that you need to find out where the noise is coming from and go in that direction to fix.If it did spin a rod bearing, then it was most likely detonation. Everything needs to come apart to check. Pistons, everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmyers151 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Being overly rich in your tune could've been the cause. How long have you been driving it with the rich tune? You may have washed the cylinders with fuel, diluted the oil and spun a bearing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance_S Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 pull the oil filter, cut the top off of it and pull the element, you can do a visual inspection that way just to give you an idea. We used to do that on the race motors all the time to check the amount of potential damage before pulling it apart. It's not an end all be all check but it's quick and easy if you don't have much time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeLobster Posted April 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Being overly rich in your tune could've been the cause. How long have you been driving it with the rich tune? You may have washed the cylinders with fuel, diluted the oil and spun a bearing. about 6 days, 50 miles. only rich in boost...like I said, idle and cruising is at 14-15 afr. If that's the case, that is a super weird coincidence that the bearing spun from that at the same time the PCV valve blows off and leans out the car causing overheating. -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker1989 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Do it right the first time or you'll be doing it again.. You ran it too rich and diluted the oil with gas, leading to your bearing failure. 14-15 AFR's at idle and light cruise is still too rich, add that to the WOT rich condition and you've got a whole lot of fuel getting past the rings and into the crankcase. How did you plan on putting in ARP rod studs without pulling the head and doing a complete tear-down?? I wouldn't even risk simply flushing the cooler and lines, but it really won't matter anyway if you don't rebuild the motor properly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie_Rich Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Pull it out and pull it apart to inspect what went wrong.It will be pretty obvious when you find the cause. If you plan to put new rod bolts in, you will need to have the big end of the rods honed.The bolts distort the rod slightly. Cutting a crank .020" will most likely go through the nitride coating. If your crank is standard and you did in fact spin a bearing, have it checked out. You may be able to polish it out or go .010" under. Get a real water tempurature gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrngwae Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Justin, your going to have to pull that oil cooler..... the fittings are on the top of it so it stays full. so if you shoot carb cleaner in there and blow it out,,,,,its going to do nothing. pull it out and put it in a parts washer. lay it on its side long ways and let the machine run solvent thru it for a bit and blow it out both directions,,,,,,, you will be very surprised what all you will get out of that thing...... also if you need anything,,,, let me know. but brother,,,,,,, your going to have to pull that head,,,,, it sucks i know,,,,, but if you cant afford to do it right,,,, you cant afford to do it over.....you have to check every single bearing surface and clean/blowout every single oil passage in that block,head,oil cooler,oil filter housing, oil pump, ect,ect,,,, you have to get it all out of there. its not an option. if you pull your motor it will be much much easier to do this work on it...... im sorry to be the bearer of ban news dude........im really just trying to help....... ask me how i know,,,,,,, remember in the fall i was a dumbarse and spun a bearing,,, trust me,,, there is shrapnel everywhere. Edited April 30, 2012 by wrngwae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dred_85.5_TSI Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Justin,I have an engine stand that I can deliver to the shop if you can cover a little gas money.Also i have a BSEK that you can use if you want to get rid of the balance shafts on the new block (I would) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrngwae Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 dont give up it happens to the best of us..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchi934 Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 14-15 AFR's at idle and light cruise is still too rich, add that to the WOT rich http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/545/OpoQQ.jpg http://www.bristoldyno.com/tech/airfuel.htm http://www.angelfire.com/pro2/rst/air_fuel_tuning_tips.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmyers151 Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 I agree with the meme, and that's some good info in the links you posted there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance_S Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 14 - 15 AFR is fine for idle and cruise. It's not rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker1989 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Alright, it's not TOO rich if you really want to split hairs. I like to see a little bit leaner at idle and anytime there's very little cylinder pressure, but to each his own.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 How do you think the engine cools off after beating on it? I suppose if you remove the turbo then lean idle is fine, but if you were to drive for a while or boost it hard a little bit, a really lean idle will just make it overheat. 12.5:1 is really nice for idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker1989 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 That makes sense. I haven't gotten to the point of tuning a turbo 4 yet, my previous tuning experiences only involve V8's. MPI, bigger turbo, solid cam, and stand-alone management are next on the list for my quest so I'll figure it out as I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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