ArsenalFox Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Had my Conquest for two years and still has the same problem. Though I've replaced alot of the ignition, the original problem is still there. What I'm experiencing is like a miss when I get on the gas at load. The engine stutters and I experience loss of power. Especially up hills (greater load). Now I see alot of people say, 'check the vac advance', but I've replaced it and tested the new one. The engine has been timed, properly, and everything but the distributor itself and the ignitor have been replaced. I'd rebuild it but no one has kits. Any Ideas? Edited October 27, 2011 by ArsenalFox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFox Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Had a breakthrough at work tonight. Removed the cap and rotor tonight. After removing the gooey lube that was gumming my governor assembly and lubricating, reassembly, and a small pop followed by a puff of smoke (brakleen igniting), my car showed a marked improvent. However the original problem was present, though slightly diminished. Forgot to mention I heated the springs and tightened them to their 'posts'. Being that the four or five major components combined would cost more than the distributor, I heated should just buy a new one and save myself some trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 You may have ruined the springs, they are supposed to be loose and one is much more loose and one longer than the other. Those weights fly out as the rpms increase. The distributor turns same speed as the cam, half of the crank rpms. You're at idle or low rpms driving down a bumpy road, hit a pot hole in the road and that enough to throw the timing off and cause a jolt to the engine. The distrubutor is mounted sideways, the jolt from poor struts and a bad road can effect those weights at lower rpms. There was a TSB to replace the weights and springs to improve this but you have a different issue. Your cleaning of the distributor was a good idea. The complaint was a surge that the source couldn't be found and a gooey distributor and bad tires on many cars you hear about a surge while driving they can't find the cause of. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM009360.JPG http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/692.jpg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 you see that bolt in the center of the pic, remove it after marking the weights and spring as to location and orentation,, after the center is pull'd up out of the shaft clean it and the shaft houseing center, add a very light coat of grease to the shaft and a drop or two of light weight oil like 3 in 1 , reasemble and readjust base timeing and check the advance with a timeing light, and do as Indy says loosen the long spring bend so the one spring is free to slide http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php?t=1131 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance_S Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 also, check your fuel pressure. I am sure Shelby and Indy are correct, they are the masters. I just thought of the fuel pump because another member had similar problems and it was the fuel pump. It never hurts to run a tube off the TB and tape a gauge to the window. If it fluctuates under load that could be your problem. Of course, follow what the above mechanical gurus listed first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Lance thanks doing a fuel system performance test is a MUST for EVERY member that cares how his car runs ,but geting guys to do it is like pulling teeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMNDSTAR87 Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) Lance thanks doing a fuel system performance test is a MUST for EVERY member that cares how his car runs ,but geting guys to do it is like pulling teeth+1----knowing what your fuel pressure is while drivin is a must----4get tapeing a gauge to ur winsheild every so often people should spend the cake and put a gauge in the car----gig out Edited September 1, 2011 by DMNDSTAR87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFox Posted September 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Okay. Here's an update of what I've done so far. Removed cap, rotor, and governor assembly yesterday and lubed properly. Checked basetiming, adjusted. Called it good until I realized that there was more to the instruction manual for the timing light. So I fired up the engine again WITH the dizzy connected to vacuum. 10 degrees btdc. wt....? When I had the cap off and tried to adjust the vac advance screw, the plate seemed sticky. It didn't throw up any flags til I read in the t light manual that one reason for the vac adv to not change timing was a frozen distributor plate. Yeah. Dis is teh sux. Time to go back to distributor 101. Oh, and in regards to fuel pressure. I had always intended to get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator with built in gauge like my buddys conquest, the one he didn't sell to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 There is no vacuum advance adjustment screw. If you moved that nut on the end of the vacuum advance you just screwed it up. That's where they adjust the free length of the arm as to how far it sticks out the end and that's not to be moved. Those springs can't be left tight you will have a very delayed mechanical advance curve and it won't reach the full advance it could. Have your injectors ever been cleaned? Are the connectors to them clean or been replaced? Do those connectors have the locking wires still on them? If the clips wiggle or are dirty it won't run right. What spark plugs are you using? http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/distri4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFox Posted September 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 I backed that screw back out to 1/4 inch. I spent the morning just cleaning gunk out of the dizzy behind the breaker plate. all clean now. During timing, however, I checked the timing with the vac advance hooked up AFTER base timing and noticed no change. I mentioned before that a sticky breaker plate will cause the dizzy to not advance. The other two causes are a blocked vac port at manifold or a leaky vac advance diaphragm. It's not the port (tastes yummy), so I checked the vac adv. After applying light vacuum by mouth, the vacuum bled off. Hope my dealership keeps records for parts returns to vendors. think it was a BWD or Echlin.Might try to see If I can return it through my dealership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFox Posted September 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Oh yeah. springs are back to normal. Injectors have not been cleaned to my knowledge, but the clips are new and soldered in with heatshrink around the wires. Old and new clips had/have the retainer wires. I'm running E3 spark plugs. I was previously running the NGK BUR7eas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 The vac. adv., if you suck on it then cover the tip of the hose with your tongue the arm must stay held in. If you turned that screw, that may have torn it from the diaphragm and ruined it or is causing it to leak it wasn't meant to be turned and may have been sealed as part of it being made, I can't say I never took one apart. There's no vac. adv. while at idle. The port for the reference hose is just slightly above the throttle plate when its closed. As soon as you just barely open the throttle there will be vaccum on that port to advance the timing. This is the illustration of that http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/86vachoses01.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 aslo to add to what Indy said the vac adv never see'd full manifold vac,, the max it'l see is arround 10-12 inches,,also a leaking diaphram will alow boost pressure AND fuel to enter the dist ,, you also didn't follow my advice about cleaning and lubeing the upper plate,, thats what the mechanical adv moves,,the lower stator plate is move'd by the vac adv unit advance moves , to advance and boost retards the entire assy,, both the upper and lower assy's need to move freely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFox Posted September 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Okay. Tore down the distributor, lubed everything. Replaced vac adv. Timed. Vac advance runs of port 1 of 3. Bypass valve now runs off port of 2 of 3 after it still ran like tail. The most noticeable change occurred after I changed the bypass vacuum port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Injector clips tight?What spark plugs, what do they look like now?What injectors? Does the BOV leak at steady throttle? Hold the RPMs up at 2500 steady and put your hand over the BOV and if can't leak any air out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFox Posted October 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Sorry it took so long to get back to this post. Been a rough six weeks. Anyway, injector clips are tight and new with wire clips and soldered and heatshrunk, I'm running e3 spark plugs, new cap, rotor, wires, cts, rebuilt Turbo (for good measure), and I think that's about it. On the other hand, I tested the injectors for resistance. Primary seemed fine. Secondary? Ohhh, about 1/1000th of an ohm! Have a friend, the previous owner, who had run several setups on his 86 if he had some spares. As it turns out he had 2 pairs: leaky stocks and Delphi 850/880cc 17113743 injectors. Threw in the Delphi set and proceeded to test drive. I almost crapped my pants! New problems. 1) though they didn't at first, the injectors leak a little at the top. I hear f-body camaro o-rings work. Any confirm on that? And 2) though not really a problem, I have done some research and found that I can run delphi 17113814 for primary and Delphi 17113744850/880cc for secondary (683cc and998.5cc respectively). Though not 650/950, its an acceptable 5% increase in volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) , I'm running e3 spark plugs, There's one problem. Those with the Y shaped ground strap let the spark go out fine but your air fuel is always going rich and lean right? When it goes rich the plugs begin to foul. Those plug won't self clean very well. How many times when you drive do you end up rich? Non turbo cars don't have such issues as you do because they don't have a turbo that pushes the fuel pressure up. When you have the boost push the pressure higher and you're in a lower gear you end up very rich and those plugs have to fire and not misfire. The plug TYPE you pick makes a different when this happens and you can't prevent this from happening. You can get a fuel translator or mpi swap but you still are dependent on the additional fuel pressure when there is boost. Lots of things effect idle. One day it might idle well then the next it might not. You might run easy for a few days then hard the next day then it idle poorly. When your injectors aren't what they were and your spark plugs aren't what they were this all effects idle and it can change depending on how you drive and how many times it was too rich. What ends up happening and you don't realize it and what most don't realize is that the plug ends up getting overheated nad the carbon comes off and it tries to clean itself but in a bad way not like it could if it sparked to the side and cleaned itself in a way that didn't rely on it needing to get too hot. When you are using them with stock boost and have dirty injectors it shows up easier but when you run high boost the plugs might appear they haven't been fouled. A TYPE of plug that resists fouling is what you need. That's what they put in the engine when it was new. Surface and semi-surface discharge firing tips are less sensitive to voltage requirement increases due to gap growth(wear). Note the concave cut on the ground electrodes for even Gap growth (wear). In addition, this type of construction aids in burning away the carbon which can act as a bridge between the center electrode and plug shell. This bridging can cause plug misfire.http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/semisurface2.jpg http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/pic_plug411.jpgHere's what they look like, they come gapped at .044. These plugs are harder to locate but are available at Summit/Jegs etc. http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs123.snc1/5289_1027208978663_1778479606_56212_606787_n.jpg Edited October 27, 2011 by Indiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkgsquad Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 hey i had/have the same issue.i replaced alot of stuff.but today about an hr ago i replaced the injector clips.Let me tell you,wht an unbelievable difference it made on my 87.i also removed my 1g mas setup and bov and hardpipes i had.i put everything back to stock(no bov) and it runs waaaayyyy better.not quite 100% but much better than before..just my 2 cents.. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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