Indiana Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 AEM WB 02s do not require calibration but Inovative ones do and I have no idea about other brands and it depends on what you do to them, if its raced you might want to do it after every time. Normally it might only be once a year for normal driving. Leaded fuel will kill them. You don't have an Innovative do you? Seeing the sweep at idle isn't causing this nor would a bad 02 the ECU is still trying to put in more fuel and 12s isn't "lean" its still quite a bit on the rich side but it could be giving you false numbers. From the last couple posts it would seem your idle tip switch might not be closing. The wire could be broken off or your throttle cable is too tight or the fixed idle screw turned down too far. Check those out, back that fixed screw out a turn or so and loosen up the nuts on the throttlecable so that you turn them two or three turns and tighten it back up and go drive. When you lift the gas pedal your air/fuel should go full lean on your gauge. Are you sure your TPS voltage at wide open throttle is at least 4.5v? The air/fuel will go rich at wide open for a few seconds until the enrichment is burnt up but if your TPS isn't putting out at least 4.5v the 02 will still be used and your gauge will still sweep, and its not supposed to a WOT. Normal cruising on the highway should get you upwards of 30mpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge2004srt4 Posted April 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 AEM WB 02s do not require calibration but Inovative ones do and I have no idea about other brands and it depends on what you do to them, if its raced you might want to do it after every time. Normally it might only be once a year for normal driving. Leaded fuel will kill them. You don't have an Innovative do you? Seeing the sweep at idle isn't causing this nor would a bad 02 the ECU is still trying to put in more fuel and 12s isn't "lean" its still quite a bit on the rich side but it could be giving you false numbers. From the last couple posts it would seem your idle tip switch might not be closing. The wire could be broken off or your throttle cable is too tight or the fixed idle screw turned down too far. Check those out, back that fixed screw out a turn or so and loosen up the nuts on the throttlecable so that you turn them two or three turns and tighten it back up and go drive. When you lift the gas pedal your air/fuel should go full lean on your gauge. Are you sure your TPS voltage at wide open throttle is at least 4.5v? The air/fuel will go rich at wide open for a few seconds until the enrichment is burnt up but if your TPS isn't putting out at least 4.5v the 02 will still be used and your gauge will still sweep, and its not supposed to a WOT. Normal cruising on the highway should get you upwards of 30mpg.I have an Autometer WB. It does not require calibration, its just like the AEM one. I will have someone push the pedal down to measure TPS voltage, and also check the closed throttle switch, clean the contact, adjust the screw and all. Might take me a day or two depending on weather and a helper. I also have never seen more than 21 MPG. Definitely wish I got close to 30. If Im showing off or heavy on the gas I get 17ish maybe a little less or more. Even highway and using cruise I wont get more than 21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge2004srt4 Posted April 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) Indiana, something I just thought of....Do you think a faulty closed throttle switch could cause the car to die at idle, while not moving? I have that happen sometimes and I have to bump the throttle to keep it running, sometimes hold it a little high and I can still hear it fight to keep from cutting out. The AFR's go to 20:1 but my fuel pressure is still there. Has happened from day 1, even with adjustments, checks, and new injectors.....all the stuff Ive been doing to correct the rich and lean days. Lepore said this was happening before I bought the car from the previous owner too. The last owner told Lepore he needed a MAF but when he got it and put it in it didnt solve the problem. Im also starting to wonder what would happen if those like colored wires were switched on the MAF, whether it would run at all at idle. Sometimes when its being really stubborn with the stalling if I shut the car off and restart it, it goes away. Chris. Edited April 3, 2011 by Dodge2004srt4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 I have an Autometer WB. It does not require calibration, its just like the AEM one. I will have someone push the pedal down to measure TPS voltage, and also check the closed throttle switch, clean the contact, adjust the screw and all. Might take me a day or two depending on weather and a helper. I also have never seen more than 21 MPG. Definitely wish I got close to 30. If Im showing off or heavy on the gas I get 17ish maybe a little less or more. Even highway and using cruise I wont get more than 21.I get about 17/21 and I only have the 12a..? should I be getting 38? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 I get about 17/21 and I only have the 12a..? should I be getting 38? I get 20/25 it really depends on your driving habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 I get 20/25 it really depends on your driving habits.that was driving in low/no boost just going to work for a week and a half. what turbo do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 16g at 18psi, but if i flog it everywhere my mpg will drop dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 The idle motor might be sticking. If it pulls in too far but sticks turning back out that would cause it to almost die and when the throttle plate briefly closed completely then just after you'd see the 20:1 on your WB because no fuel went through. Someone has some pictures of how to take those apart and clean them up. The position they are in at idle is where they have worn the most and likely just get dried out right there and that's what makes them stick. At steady 900ish rpms you shouldn't be that lean but if it goes up and down then air fuel will go up and down just because what didn't get past the throttle plate not that it was spraying the same amount of fuel all the time. Slight/slow TPS movements like that won't add in fuel for enrichment but will if you press the pedal. Once you get it to idle I think you'll be happy if you get a MAFT setup. As I remember those 16Gs aren't all that fun at 15psi and they seem like less power than a 12A at 15psi. I'd go at least to 20. You don't have a BOV with an oring that's binding and hanging in place with the vaccum gone and can't seat? Maybe the oring is torn or has a cut in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge2004srt4 Posted April 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 The idle motor might be sticking. If it pulls in too far but sticks turning back out that would cause it to almost die and when the throttle plate briefly closed completely then just after you'd see the 20:1 on your WB because no fuel went through. Someone has some pictures of how to take those apart and clean them up. The position they are in at idle is where they have worn the most and likely just get dried out right there and that's what makes them stick. At steady 900ish rpms you shouldn't be that lean but if it goes up and down then air fuel will go up and down just because what didn't get past the throttle plate not that it was spraying the same amount of fuel all the time. Slight/slow TPS movements like that won't add in fuel for enrichment but will if you press the pedal. Once you get it to idle I think you'll be happy if you get a MAFT setup. As I remember those 16Gs aren't all that fun at 15psi and they seem like less power than a 12A at 15psi. I'd go at least to 20. You don't have a BOV with an oring that's binding and hanging in place with the vaccum gone and can't seat? Maybe the oring is torn or has a cut in it?No binding BOV, I checked that and for a torn diaphragm. Ill have to tear apart and inspect the IAC and MPS, throttle switch, ect. I have to get to the bottom of this. I went for a drive today and slammed the throttle 1-3 gears and pulled solid 10's AFR all the way to redline. I had a stumble here and there on repeated pulls when the AFR was either too rich or lean for a moment. Its not consistent, and now I wonder if the primary is too large and something just goes out of whack more often than not. Im just going to pretend everything is questionable and start taking it off, inspecting it, and cleaning it. I also got another MAF but the honeycomb is removed on both passages. I dont know how the car will react but I figure its worth a shot for now. Its supposed to be very warm tomorrow so Im going to get to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 I also got another MAF but the honeycomb is removed on both passages. I dont know how the car will react but I figure its worth a shot for now. Its supposed to be very warm tomorrow so Im going to get to it.I hope you got a money back guarantee on that. It will likely make the car idle and cruse even more erratic and generally run leaner. Might help a little at wide open throttle. Does this car have a intake air hard pipe on it. I have found those to screw up the mas signal at high air flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge2004srt4 Posted April 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 I hope you got a money back guarantee on that. It will likely make the car idle and cruse even more erratic and generally run leaner. Might help a little at wide open throttle. Does this car have a intake air hard pipe on it. I have found those to screw up the mas signal at high air flow.Hard pipes on everything, from the MAF to the throttle mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge2004srt4 Posted April 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Page 14-41 from the 89 FSM:Idle switch inspection.1) Disc the ISC motor connector2) Check continuity between terminal (2) and body GROUND Accel depressed Non-Conductive infinite OhmsAccel released Conductive 0 Ohms 3) If out of spec replace ISC servo assembly. I got zero Ohms no matter what I did.I made some adjustments to the fixed idle screw and ISC set screw as well as the throttle cable tension. With these adjustments I ran the car through 1-3 gears, no stumble and the AFR's were no leaner than 11.4:1. I also see where the at full decel the AFR now goes into the 18-20 range every time. Even though I cant get the ISC assembly to pass the test everything now works. My TPS voltage is .52 at key on and .54 during idle, goes up to 4.7V at wide open throttle. So I think I found that someone had adjusted the fixed idle screw and had the throttle plate open a bit at idle, maybe throwing the whole thing off during accel. I did nothing with the MAF. Thoughts if any?Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) Look at the linkage and see that the tip switch is being pushed closed with that tab on the "free lever" and that someone hasn't bent it. The wires under that boot one for the ground (for the tip switch) may be broken. Remove the idle motor and the flat strap and peel the boot back. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/3f37.jpg Edited April 4, 2011 by Indiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge2004srt4 Posted April 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Look at the linkage and see that the tip switch is being pushed closed with that tab on the "free lever" and that someone hasn't bent it. The wires under that boot one for the ground (for the tip switch) may be broken. Remove the idle motor and the flat strap and peel the boot back. Its making contact, I cleaned it off. There is an indentation where it contacts so its been hitting the spot for some time. I couldnt check for the ground though, its 85 after being in the 30's so I cant take the big change in temps. Will have to go at it again tomorrow when it cools down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge2004srt4 Posted April 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 The coolant line that runs from the intake manifold to the throttle body.....does it serve any other purpose other than to increase the intake temps for emissions? Would there be any drawback in removing it, cause it seems to just make a hot spot for incoming air at the throttle body and a place for coolant to leak if the gasket were to be bad. Just a random question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) That's how coolant is always flowing across the CTS and the stat when its closed. Edited April 5, 2011 by Indiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge2004srt4 Posted April 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 That's how coolant is always flowing across the CTS and the stat when its closed.I guess I didnt remember the loop when I had my spare intake apart. So if you go MPI how would the elimination affect the car or is that done with the stand alone ECU? Just curious cause I think eliminating it would lower the intake charge temps, making the intercooled air stay cool. I guess you would have to run a bypass back into the intake and block or weld off the passage between the intake and throttle body. They just had to make it complicated just for emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Magna intakes have a bypass tube that does the same thing as the passage under the throttlebody on our intakes. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/magnablockdifferences.JPG It is possible to reroute the coolant in a stock intake to not heat up the throttlebody but to keep it flowing across the stat and CTS. I can show you more about that if interested but you have to cut into the passage under your intake and plug it then use a hose for a bypass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge2004srt4 Posted April 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 So its been agreed upon that some bugger messed with the fixed idle screw causing this to occur. Im almost positive that the throttle would not open enough for the TPS to get the full voltage it needed, plus it was creating a higher idle. I still have some minor bugs to work out on the idle but all in all, its all working correctly now. Thanks to all the brainpower that went into this.Now I know personally why that screw is not supposed to be messed with, glad I knew that from reading before I even bought my SQ. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 So its been agreed upon that some bugger messed with the fixed idle screw causing this to occur.Now I know personally why that screw is not supposed to be messed with Chris. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I called it yo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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