Boosting problem

[Caliber308]

 

 

I tried my old secondary and it didnt even fire... so im not going to be using it anymore i guess lol

 

I still dont think that small amount of fuel build up would be causing my SUPER rich issue before i start to boost.

 

Any other ideas? lol

 

Sounds like you need a new set of injectors.

 

CALIBER 308

[Caliber308]

A little bit of an update...and sadly i dont know if it matters.

 

I have noticed that while cruising my afr is at 14.7 which is believe is right where i want it.

 

As soon as i start to accelerate...even holding it at 3 vacuum my afr goes to 10.8 ish.

 

 

Sounds to me like a leaking secondary injector. This is about the third time i've mentioned this to you. Because of my experience on almost the same problem your having is the reason I gave you this advice. If the car goes rich on your A/F Gauge at appox. 2500 to 3000 rpms on acceleration to 10 AFR and (like you say) your secondary injector is "pooling" fuel, That is most likely your problem. But by all means, If you have access to a "KNOWN GOOD" Stock secondary injector, install it and see if your A/F gauge reads fine. It might go to 12 or 13 AFR on hard acceleration if it is working properly, but 10.8 is too rich. That is what gives me the clue that the secondary is leaking fuel.P.S. Even with a stock engine and Airflow set up the aftermarket Delphi fuel injectors will work fine if installed properly.

 

 

CALIBER 308

Edited September 4, 2010 by Caliber308

[Starwolf]

Yeah you are right...how well could a place actually clean the stock ones? What is the chances they are just to far gone and cant be fixed?

 

I still dont think its the reason behind whats been going on with my car though. My girlfriend's car had a leaking primary and it was NOTHING like this.

[Caliber308]

Yeah you are right...how well could a place actually clean the stock ones? What is the chances they are just to far gone and cant be fixed?

 

I still dont think its the reason behind whats been going on with my car though. My girlfriend's car had a leaking primary and it was NOTHING like this.

 

It's your $30.00 to spend to find out. Personally, the stock ones are old. If you want to try and have them cleaned...That is up to you. I had a set cleaned and two months later the secondary started to leak. $30.00 to find out is not that big of a expense. But, if they are bad, or check out good like mine did, and two months down the road they screw up....To me,Maybe your money would be better spent on a new set of Aftermarket Delphis. I don't sell injectors !!!! Just trying to give you the best advice I can from my experiences. Here is another thing you will here about Aftermarket Delphi injectors: :"The spray pattern is different". This is true, but in no way what so ever did my car run any different with the Stock injectors spray pattern compared to the Delphis.The best way to find out information is to start a post about which members are running Delphi injectors, for how long and if they are happy with them.

 

Good Luck,

 

CALIBER 308

Edited September 4, 2010 by Caliber308

[Starwolf]

K well it looks like i will be chucking out the money for new delphi's....cant hurt anyways right?

 

You might be right caliber but i still think this really strange issue is more than just a little bit of fuel and even the secondary injector itself. This happens at ANY rpm around 3 vacuum ...any boost and it hits 9's and pretty much starts to attack itself lol

 

I will go ahead and order some injectors though....wouldnt be bad having some stock spares for the other local cars.

[Starwolf]

Well i felt fairly confident that my issue might be in the mas...

 

Took one of my girlfriends car that doesnt have the problem like mine...put it on my car AND...

 

 

It idled like crap...and died. Started it again after wiggling the plug and it was idling for a while but really crappy...and around 16 afr

 

Unplugged the mas and it died immediately...car hasnt started since. I swapped my mas back in and it still doesnt start...wiggled the connector...been wiggling injector clips...wt....

 

Took a spark plug out but couldnt find the freaking gap tool...so i put it back in. (looked like they always have)

 

Car still doesnt start....maybe primary injector just died? Well im about to find out because i have several primaries...going to swap a primary into the secondary location to test as well...

 

Im out of ideas but im really starting to think its a spark problem...i have almost brand new ngk spark plug cables...and the spark plugs are pretty new too. Going to pop open the dist and have a look see inside...

 

Any other ideas? I cant find a damn air leak but i still havent made something to pressurize the system yet to find out.

[cyberquest]

swap the knock box.

[Caliber308]

 

 

Car still doesnt start

 

Im out of ideas but im really starting to think its a spark problem

 

Any other ideas?

 

Engine will not start or starts too hard (cranks OK)

 

Probable cause:

 

1.Fuel pump control system malfunction

2.Distributor signal generator or igniter malfunction

3.Vacuum hose disconnected or damaged

4.Power is not supplied to ECU

5.Damaged control relay

6.ECI system malfunction

7.Idle switch malfunction

8.Injector malfunction

9.Damaged resistor

10.Improper fuel pressure

11.Damaged ECU

12.Harness broken/short-circuited or connector not connected securely

 

CALIBER 308

[Indiana]

Look at the terminals in the MAF plug, maybe one is bent and not even touching the terminal on the MAF. You can use a needle or fine ice pick and push on the sides if they look bent larger. Could be one has a wire broken near the plug and its shorting to another. Unwrap the tape near the plug and see. I'd have already sent those injectors off to be cleaned if I were you. You would have them back already if you had a few days ago its a quick turn around its mostly just the mail waiting time. I asked if you had a DSM MAF because if the plug was on upside down it makes a difference and since the lock tab has to be cut off its possible to do that.

[87B71Brad]

mine wouldnt start because the maf plug was pluggin in 180 out. But its a 1g so idunno if yours could plug in upside down.?

 

If you want to swap some parts from my 87 let me know. I dunno what I did but the problem you were having I had but It went away for some odd reason.

 

I may could take a drive over there just let me know. I know it frustrating.

[Starwolf]

Sorry guys i thought i had my problem fixed...soo it wouldnt start but i decided to see if it was getting fuel...popped ovcp off and nothing during cranking. I swapped inj clips and it fired up but rich obviously.

 

SOOO my primary injector just died. I swapped out with another i had and it is running a lot better. All through first gear the car runs great...shift into second to get on it and again it does the cutting out. My car is running 11-12psi right now. Hmm.

 

Either way im convinced im going to buy new injectors...if the primary just quit and wouldnt even fire then its in the trash.

 

Maybe my secondary is leaking as well? Does the secondary kick on as much in first?

[StarquestRescue]

If you kick the gas pedal enough at idle the secondary with kick in. the black trace jumping up from the bottom is the secondary kick on.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/Data%20logs/TPSinrichment.jpg

 

At moderate acceleration the secondary seems to come on at 390 hz of air flow, and shut off at 290 hz. That is typically right around zero boost or less. Both of these logs were stock injectors.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/Data%20logs/Secondaryonsetatlightthrottle.jpg

 

Are you cleaning the corrosion off the injector terminals? They need to be shinny, not crusty looking. That is a pia to do but it must be done if you expect the car to run right.

Edited September 5, 2010 by StarquestRescue

[StarquestRescue]

Now this is what happens if the effective size ratio (at the typically duty clcle and fuel pressure when the transition takes place) does not match the oem injectors. Notice how the afr changes when the car went back to the primary (850-1400 injectors)

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/Data%20logs/2Secondarys-1.jpg

Edited September 5, 2010 by StarquestRescue

[StarquestRescue]

This is as cheep as they come. http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=98252 Buy with a good running car to swap parts off of i do not see why you cant figure out which part is bad. But you could have more than one problem at the same time and be chasing your tail.

[Indiana]

I'd send them off to be cleaned but that's just me. If clips/tabs are dirty I can't see saying an injector is "bad" is necessarily all of your problem.

 

 

 

 

[Starwolf]

I understand fellas

 

I have cleaned the injector's and the clips are new. I cant stress enough how important i think cleaning grounds and connections are so i think or at least HOPE i have that covered. I just swapped in a primary for the secondary just for testing...

 

Cleaning the stock ones would probably work...but i think ill just buy the new delphi's brianpaul is selling and try them out. If the car is still acting weird with this other injector...im going to swap the mas again and try that...if still nothing ill do a compression test and take a look at the distributor

 

Thanks everyone!

[Starwolf]

Swapped in a good mas just to check...still does the same thing. So its either some kind of spark problem or the injectors. I swapped out with several different injectors and checked them all. Found two that had good spray patterns and didnt drip...they looked like they would eventually build up enough to drip so im still going to either get some cleaned or buy new ones. But would that little bit of buildup really cause this problem? Its like as soon as i pass 5psi of boost it goes from 11ish afr straight to 9.5 and cuts out badly.

 

I took the dist cap and rotor off and everything turned fine. Im going to look again and see if there is any chance i messed up on the weight spring combo...but as of right now im pretty positive its all good.

 

o2, CTS, mas all seem okay. Could the TPS cause this? Ive heard you can run the car without the tps plugged up...but can you safely boost like this?

 

Thanks again.

[StarquestRescue]

If you have not pressurized the intake track you have not ruled out boost leaks.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/2010%20Misc/DSC01838.jpg

[Caliber308]

Its like as soon as i pass 5psi of boost it goes from 11ish afr straight to 9.5 and cuts out badly.

 

 

 

Thanks again.

 

SECONDARY,SECONDARY,SECONDARY...... Injector. This is about the fourth time I have told you. Don't look at the boost gauge, look at the Tach. What are the rpms at: Are they between 2500 to 3000 when this happens?. Is that when your A/F Gauge goes to 9.5 AFR ??? I really don't mind trying to help you, but you jump around from one thing to another. Start with something that not only I, but others have suggested you do to try and help you solve your problem....Secondary Injector.

 

CALIBER 308

Edited September 7, 2010 by Caliber308