lew39 Posted June 27, 2010 Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 well heres what i know of the story. picked up a red 87 yesterday and supposedly the engine was rebuilt, but the PO suspects the head gasket was not installed correctly. he did a compression test and numbers were low. "cyl.=120psi cyl.2=30psi(put alittle oil in the cyl. got 60psi and it bled right back down to 30 again) cyl.3=90psi cyl.4=120psi". he also told me it was a non jet valve head. i havent even tried to start the car yet. i was thinking id pull the head and start over, but want to be sure its not something simple im missing before doing so. also ive never pulled a head before and was wondering if you guys know of any good links. i have a manual but its rather vague. it says "remove the cylinder head" lol. so just wondering if i should try to get it started and see if its smoking or dumping coolant in the oil? could i damage the engine further? or just pull the head and start over? all advice greatly appreciated. thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garychoffmann Posted June 27, 2010 Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 http://www.starquestgarage.com/manuals/service/conquest/1988/88_conquest_service_nav.html That is a link to the factory service manual. Personally I would pull the head and see what kind of damage is there. Hopefully it is just a head gasket. You already know it has bad compression so there is no real point in trying to get it to run. I would take the safe route and see if it's the headgasket or a cylinder problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted June 27, 2010 Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 I always like to do a leak down test at this point. Basically put compressed air in the cylinder through the spark plug hole with the valves closed and try and detrinim where it is leaking out. If it blows out the cylinder besides it than the gasket is blown. If it comes out the intake or exhaust than it is a valve problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAinsworth Posted June 27, 2010 Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 I always like to do a leak down test at this point. Basically put compressed air in the cylinder through the spark plug hole with the valves closed and try and detrinim where it is leaking out. If it blows out the cylinder besides it than the gasket is blown. If it comes out the intake or exhaust than it is a valve problem. I agree, it could be something as simple as a stuck open jet-valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew39 Posted June 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 unfortunately i down have the equip to perform the leak down test, so i quess its off with the head. from what i understand in the service manual, it looks like i leave the intake and exhaust on the head when i pull it. is this the case? any tips i should be aware of? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew39 Posted June 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 I agree, it could be something as simple as a stuck open jet-valve. non jet valve head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAinsworth Posted June 27, 2010 Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 non jet valve head Missed that part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbrad511 Posted June 27, 2010 Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 If putting a little oil in #2 bought compression up like that, you've got ring problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew39 Posted June 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 If putting a little oil in #2 bought compression up like that, you've got ring problems. which means? im afraid to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew39 Posted June 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 ok i think im starting to see the big picture here. after further inspection i see the wastegate was hooked up completely wrong. the engine was probably rebuilt and someone who knew even less than i do did not hook up the wastegate correctly and this thing was pushing 30 psi and bye bye engine. i got this car really cheap, but what a shame. really nice car. interior is A+.. so now what? i orginally bought it for parts, but when i got there to pick it up it was so nice i was hoping the head gasket would do the job. drained the fluids and the oil reaks of gas. also oil is every where in the engine bay. i guess i could pull the engine and start over and look it as a learning experience. i assume if the rings are bad, the block has to come out and be bored and that means new pistons. basically another rebuild. i want to save this thing but its alot for a guy like me. minimal tools and experience. LOL. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garychoffmann Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Pull the head and see what you find, I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. There are alot of variables. I normally pull the exhause manifold and intake just to make it easier to manuever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 They blow easy in the center on old blocks that have never had the deck milled again. You might just have a valve not fully closing did you look and see if you have mechanical rocker arms or not? Maybe a jam nut came loose and the screw backed off and it can be fixed in 5 minutes and cost nothing. You don't pull the motor out and you certainly do not assume that rings are bad or anything else. Maybe they just didn't clean all the crap of the head and block so the headgasket can't seal you can't tell. Maybe some crap got into a lifter and a valve isn't seating. Maybe the cam dowel pin sheered off. The last thing to do it remove the motor, you can very likely fix this after you look at the valve train and maybe you'll have to remove the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew39 Posted June 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 Yea i was still planing on taking the head off. Gotta at least take a look.I'm out of town till Thursday, so I'll post pics of the head, block, and valve train near the end of the week. This car is sooo nice, even the power antenna works! Thank you all so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew39 Posted July 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2010 (edited) almost ready to remove the head, the only thing left to do is remove the cam bolt and distributor. in the manual im supposed to turn the crankshaft until the timing lines up. does this mean put the notch at TDC? it shows a pic of the cam and distributor with 2 arrows. are there timing marks on the cam and distributor? also found another problem, i think the turbo is shot. i can hear the turbine hitting the walls when i wiggle it. lots of play and a sucking noise. all the fins appear to be intact, can this be rebuilt? if so, anyone know of a good source for the kit. thanks, should have pics of block and head today. Edited July 1, 2010 by lew39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted July 1, 2010 Report Share Posted July 1, 2010 Just put the cam dowel up at the top, the gear sits on the little shelf and it won't matter as long as the cam is in the position to get back on the dowel. Why you put the cam gear dowel at the top and the TDC mark lined up is so when you put the dist. back in its easier. If those are hydraulic lifters you'll have to bleed them down, could be one was pumped up too much was all that was wrong. Maybe the motor was turned over with a valve down and the piston bent it who knows. What are you going to do after its off? You can't test for bent valves yourself with the head off unless you remove the valve springs and rotate the valve and see if light will pass through a crack. If the lifters are dirty and I'm sure they are you have to flush those out. Surfaces may have been dirty when the last guy put it on too. You should check all those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew39 Posted July 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2010 well it seems the camshaft sprocket holder is gone. what can i do to support the sprocket? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted July 1, 2010 Report Share Posted July 1, 2010 Just let it fall it will only go in an inch or so and the chain won't come off the gears just don't rotate the motor and leave the clutch in neutral so if the car is bumped it won't try and turn the engine. When you go to put it back on ask again I'll tell you how you can check to see that its correct and you don't have to use those plated links for anything or pay attention to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew39 Posted July 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2010 sent you a pm indiana. hope thats ok.thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred1781 Posted July 1, 2010 Report Share Posted July 1, 2010 Its easier to get the head out with the manifolds off. I would put the manifolds on the head before you put the head back in. Some of the manifold bolts are a real pita to get to with the head in the car. Ask me how I know hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew39 Posted July 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2010 pics of valvetrain and roller rockers with out the jetvalve tab. uhh this is a jet valve head. quess the PO was mistaken. http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/holloeband/head/IMG_0005.jpghttp://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/holloeband/head/IMG_0006.jpghttp://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/holloeband/head/IMG_0004.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew39 Posted July 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 ok just an update i pulled the head and gasket is definately blown in cylinders 2 and 3. i can see no damage to the cylinder walls in those cylinders. what else would i be looking for here? this certainly looks like the problem, but just wanting to make sure i dont miss something before i put it all back together. i am sending the head out to be resurfaced even though this was just rebuilt. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbrad511 Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 If you don't already have studs, now's the time to put them in. Use a good head gasket, some will say 9116, I've had good luck with the 8770 (both Felpro), and no matter what they say, retorque after a couple heat/cool cycles. I've swapped HG's a few times and never retorqued. I decided to do it last time I swapped heads.I couldn't beleive how much torque mine had lost in just that short amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred1781 Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 I use the AJUSA metal shim h/g. Worth the money imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 Get the block deck milled flat or do it yourself. That's most likely why it blew. Check out the motor build thread sticky and you'll see why. If you have that torn down and want to do it in the car yourself you can. Cost you about $5 for a stone and take you about an hour. If you can't clean the head surface yourself then just have the head put in a tank and cleaned but don't have it surfaced. If its older or its original it may be cracked or has cracks forming now. Look carefully in between the intake and exhaust valves, you'll have to clean this small area with a brush or something to see bare clean metal and look for hairline cracks. They just keep expanding until coolant sprays out. It takes some time for the crack to go all the way through the casting to the water passage, they don't leak from just a hairline crack being there that's just where it has started.http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs112.snc1/4826_1021027104120_1778479606_40789_4911618_n.jpgIf that's not a roller cam and I bet its not then get those roller rockers out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew39 Posted July 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 is there a write up or something on the milling the deck yourself? where would i get the stone? just to be clear, your saying NOT to resurface the head.. correct? also how can i tell for sure if thats a roller cam or not? i didnt see any stamping like you mentioned before for hyd or mech on the cam. i might be missing it though. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts