Batteries

[StrongTyer]

After about 3 weeks of owning and working on my new 87 conquest I have some battery problems.

 

The previous owner relocated the battery (optima red top 1000 cranking amps) to the trunk which is fine but

 

(1) [sub question] Does this affect any electronics in the car? Wipers...starter...not enough power...etc...

 

Its probably my fault its dead because I left the stereo (2 10's powerd by a 950 watt amp and a 1000 watt amp with a kinetic 100 farad capacitor ***dont know if the previous owner hooked it up right***) on a couple times while working on the car. I tried to be careful and I even started the car a few times to make sure the battery wouldnt die but....it did...

 

Long story short I killed it about 2 times. Now my battery wont hold a charge. So I bought a new one (same battery because I had heard good things before....now I just looked on here and found the optimas have already been discussed and about 50% really good experiences and 50% really bad plus I just saw the sticker that says made in MEXICO ). Now after reading about yellow tops I was thinking maybe I should take the red top back and get a yellow top (less cranking amps for the price but they are supposed to be for stereo systems).

 

(2) Would I preffer to get one or are those only if you are going to run the stereo for a long time without the car on?

 

(3 )Are optimas really that bad...or good or should find another dry cell batter or do I risk running a wet cell?

 

As you can tell now this is kinda complicated and a bit if a long post but Im open to suggestions!

[psu_Crash]

After about 3 weeks of owning and working on my new 87 conquest I have some battery problems.

 

The previous owner relocated the battery (optima red top 1000 cranking amps) to the trunk which is fine but

 

(1) [sub question] Does this affect any electronics in the car? Wipers...starter...not enough power...etc...

 

 

As long as large gauge quality copper wires were run and connected solid you shouldn't have any issues from the relocate. I used 2/0 wire and ran the power and ground right up to the stock connections.

 

Jury is still out on the Optimas I think. But if you can exchange the one you have for a yellow top I say go for it. Being relocated you really should have something sealed. I looked into getting one but I saw the same posts you did about them and decided a cheapo wal-mart battery would do the trick. Ended up using a 51-4 that's 520 Cranking Amps, 435 Cold Cranking Amps. These cars don't require a lot of cranking amps. Works fine but over about 2 years I just bought my second. Same issue where I ran it dead a few times and it wouldn't hold a charge anymore. Most batteries are like that after getting completely discharged a few times although the AGM batteries are supposed to handle it far better than a standard lead acid.

 

Edit: By the way if the capacitor was connected wrong you would know it. Reverse polarity = BOOM goes the cap! unless it has some protection circuitry. 100 Farads is retarded huge! A good rule of thumb is 1 Farad per 1000 watts RMS. It won't hurt anything though, they only help.

 

I did a quick google on that Cap and came across THIS There is some good info in there if you read through.

Edited June 1, 2010 by psu_Crash

[StrongTyer]

As long as large gauge quality copper wires were run and connected solid you shouldn't have any issues from the relocate. I used 2/0 wire and ran the power and ground right up to the stock connections.

 

Jury is still out on the Optimas I think. But if you can exchange the one you have for a yellow top I say go for it. Being relocated you really should have something sealed. I looked into getting one but I saw the same posts you did about them and decided a cheapo wal-mart battery would do the trick. Ended up using a 51-4 that's 520 Cranking Amps, 435 Cold Cranking Amps. These cars don't require a lot of cranking amps. Works fine but over about 2 years I just bought my second. Same issue where I ran it dead a few times and it wouldn't hold a charge anymore. Most batteries are like that after getting completely discharged a few times although the AGM batteries are supposed to handle it far better than a standard lead acid.

 

Edit: By the way if the capacitor was connected wrong you would know it. Reverse polarity = BOOM goes the cap! unless it has some protection circuitry. 100 Farads is retarded huge! A good rule of thumb is 1 Farad per 1000 watts RMS. It won't hurt anything though, they only help.

 

I did a quick google on that Cap and came across THIS There is some good info in there if you read through.

 

There is some good info in there. Im still lost but it was a good read. Thanks. Now I dont know if I need or want a capacitor thats 100 farads. It appears that its pointless. From what people had told me before I thought that capacitors helped store energy so that your batter doesnt get drained as bad. Im lost now....lol!

[StrongTyer]

Looks like I lied. Maybe thats not capacitor at all I have back there.

 

This is what it is

[Burton]

So, your car is setup with two batteries then? How are they hooked up? The proper way to run 2 batteries is with an isolator. If your batteries are run without one that could be your problem. I have seen many people who run two batteries without an isolator have luck, but only when the two batteries are identical. It's when they get into two different kinds that they have problems- especially with "specialty" batteries like the Optimas and Kinetics. The Optimas are very picky about how they are charged. If you don't charge them according to factory specs you can kill the battery. Now, if the Kinetic battery is finicy in the same way, but the two batteries have different charging specs, then if they are on the same system, you will be charging them the same way. That type of charge may be right for one battery, but hard on the other and vice versa.

 

 

Optimas are great batteries if you keep them charged properly. Most people I hear of who have bad things to say about them, usually were responsible for killing the battery themselves due to improper charging or discharging but don't realize it.

 

If you really want to run the Optima, and the KInetic, I'd get an isolator. Otherwise, replace both batteries with either Optimas, or go back to a regular car battery and run two of them. You could also run only one battery, and replace that Kinetic with a 3 or 5 farad cap.

 

 

Personally, I don't think you really need more than one battery. I'm puting out over 2000 watts, and am doing it with just a 110A GM alternator upgrade and a single cheapie AutoZone battery. No dual batteries, no caps, nothing, and I have plenty of juice any time I need it.

[StrongTyer]

So, your car is setup with two batteries then? How are they hooked up? The proper way to run 2 batteries is with an isolator. If your batteries are run without one that could be your problem. I have seen many people who run two batteries without an isolator have luck, but only when the two batteries are identical. It's when they get into two different kinds that they have problems- especially with "specialty" batteries like the Optimas and Kinetics. The Optimas are very picky about how they are charged. If you don't charge them according to factory specs you can kill the battery. Now, if the Kinetic battery is finicy in the same way, but the two batteries have different charging specs, then if they are on the same system, you will be charging them the same way. That type of charge may be right for one battery, but hard on the other and vice versa.

 

 

Optimas are great batteries if you keep them charged properly. Most people I hear of who have bad things to say about them, usually were responsible for killing the battery themselves due to improper charging or discharging but don't realize it.

 

If you really want to run the Optima, and the KInetic, I'd get an isolator. Otherwise, replace both batteries with either Optimas, or go back to a regular car battery and run two of them. You could also run only one battery, and replace that Kinetic with a 3 or 5 farad cap.

 

 

Personally, I don't think you really need more than one battery. I'm puting out over 2000 watts, and am doing it with just a 110A GM alternator upgrade and a single cheapie AutoZone battery. No dual batteries, no caps, nothing, and I have plenty of juice any time I need it.

 

Thanks Burton.

 

Is THISwhat I need?

[Burton]

I've never used one of those, but I guess it's doing the same thing in a smaller unit. I used some of the Cole Herse ones and also Power Line ones. Those were more dedicated for marine grade. I have always liked using marine grade stuff better as it seems to handle sporradic charging issues the best.

[Chrome_Rush]

I have 2 optima batteries, a red top and a yellow top, the thing with these is they HAVE TO BE CHARGED PROPERLY. IF they die adn you jsut try to jump start the car and let it run to charge the battery like you would any typical car battery, it WILL NOT hold a charge. They have to be run on a 24 hour trickle charger if you let it go dead. Otherwise it will never get a full charge. That being said, they are great batteries. Im running just a 95 amp alternator in my daily driver, I run 2 12" alpine type R's off of a hifonics brutus 1600watt RMS amp, along with a hifonics titan series 4 channel 460 watt amp to the mains with zero gauge wiring to the trunk into a distribution block than 4 gauge to each amp. If I cranked it up enough to FEEL the bass, the lights would dim pretty bad in the car. I added the red top battery and at the same volume I dont even get a flicker. It really can replace the need for a larger alternator or a capacitor. I do not run a cap and even at very loud volume, so much volume in fact the screws will periodically come loose from my 4 channel amp, I barely get a flicker from the lights. I havent used the yellow top yet, its new, but it came with my parts car quest, and is still in my parts car, but the red top I have is plenty sufficient for the system you are running, mine is a little more power hungry than what your running, assuming you charge it correctly. I got a battery charger with a 2 amp trickle charger at harbor freight for like 30 bucks, if the battery goes dead on me for some reason like leaving a light on overnight I throw it on that for a day and its as good as new. The optima batteries are great batteries, you just have to know how to maintain them properly.

[StrongTyer]

I have 2 optima batteries, a red top and a yellow top, the thing with these is they HAVE TO BE CHARGED PROPERLY. IF they die adn you jsut try to jump start the car and let it run to charge the battery like you would any typical car battery, it WILL NOT hold a charge. They have to be run on a 24 hour trickle charger if you let it go dead. Otherwise it will never get a full charge. That being said, they are great batteries. Im running just a 95 amp alternator in my daily driver, I run 2 12" alpine type R's off of a hifonics brutus 1600watt RMS amp, along with a hifonics titan series 4 channel 460 watt amp to the mains with zero gauge wiring to the trunk into a distribution block than 4 gauge to each amp. If I cranked it up enough to FEEL the bass, the lights would dim pretty bad in the car. I added the red top battery and at the same volume I dont even get a flicker. It really can replace the need for a larger alternator or a capacitor. I do not run a cap and even at very loud volume, so much volume in fact the screws will periodically come loose from my 4 channel amp, I barely get a flicker from the lights. I havent used the yellow top yet, its new, but it came with my parts car quest, and is still in my parts car, but the red top I have is plenty sufficient for the system you are running, mine is a little more power hungry than what your running, assuming you charge it correctly. I got a battery charger with a 2 amp trickle charger at harbor freight for like 30 bucks, if the battery goes dead on me for some reason like leaving a light on overnight I throw it on that for a day and its as good as new. The optima batteries are great batteries, you just have to know how to maintain them properly.

 

Thanks. Does this mean I need to buy a special charger? I now traded the red top for a yellow and everything seems fine. Every so often I check the voltage on it with the tester and it always reads about 12.11-12.70

 

I just threw it in the car. When I purchased it I didnt trickle charge it or anything. Is that bad?

 

About how long do you think I could run the stereo at moderate volume before running the yellow top down too much?

[Burton]

Thanks. Does this mean I need to buy a special charger? I now traded the red top for a yellow and everything seems fine. Every so often I check the voltage on it with the tester and it always reads about 12.11-12.70

 

I just threw it in the car. When I purchased it I didnt trickle charge it or anything. Is that bad?

 

About how long do you think I could run the stereo at moderate volume before running the yellow top down too much?

 

 

You just need a low amperage charger, not a booster box type charger.

 

The battery should have been properly charged by the place that you got it from and probably wouldn't need any charging

 

 

Depends on your definition of "moderate". Even with the best of batteries, I wouldn't run my system at a moderate volume for any longer than 20-30 minutes without running the car or hooking it up to a charger. The first day I was gaining in my stereo I was hammering on it for only 15 minutes before the subs started clipping and the car wouldn't start.

[Chrome_Rush]

they come properly charged new, its just after you run it down that it HAS TO BE put on a low amp trickle charger. IF all you have is a regular charger or jump start box, than yes you need a special charger. TO be honest, I wouldnt run the subs at all with the car not running. If I want a little music while the car is go into the setting on the radio and turn the sub output off so all I get is the mids/highs. Even than I wouldnt run it for more than 30 minutes, but my 4 channel uses up some power to. If your just running the mains off the deck theres not much power there and you should be ok for maybe an hour, I wouldnt go any longer without running the car. If I wasnt to listen to the radio in the car I let it idle. if im working on something at the house I just turn on the garage radio or run an extension cord for a boom box.

[OptimaJim]

Hello, I noticed your conversation regarding our batteries and wanted to offer some assistance. First and foremost, if your battery has been relocated inside of the vehicle, it needs to be properly-vented to the outside. Under normal operating conditions, an AGM battery will not vent gas. Since alternators or chargers can fail, the safest and correct mounting method for trunks and passenger compartments is to make sure that any possible gas venting will escape to the outside of the vehicle. All vehicles with original equipment battery locations in trunks or passenger compartments will have a vent provision that should be used. Optima group 27, 51, 78, 34C, and 31 batteries all have ports for connecting a vent hose.

 

Although people do it anyway, we would never recommend installing an unvented battery in any enclosed space, because there’s a legitimate, albeit unlikely, safety risk involved.

 

For example, IF there is a voltage regulator failure, and IF the battery is severely overcharged, and IF this goes unnoticed, and IF the battery vents because the internal pressure exceeds the release pressure of the vents, the gasses are both flammable and toxic. This may sound like a lot of “ifs,” but attorneys and engineers get paid to plan for every worst-case scenario.

 

StrongTyer, considering your car audio modifications, a YellowTop is really a more appropriate battery, due to its ability to be deep-cycled repeatedly. The key to long battery life is maintaining 12.4 volts or more, whenever possible. When batteries are discharged below that level, sulfation begins to occur, which diminishes performance and lifespan. If a vehicle only sees occasional use, a battery tender or maintainer is a great investment, which will help extend the life of any battery, regardless of brand. Burton is also correct about dissimilar batteries needing to be isolated from each other, if they are not the same age, size and type.

 

The quality of our batteries has always been excellent and continues to improve. The batteries we are making today are the best we have ever made and many of the “bad” batteries returned to us now are just deeply-discharged. These batteries work fine, when properly recharged. Under normal conditions, an Optima can be treated and charged just like any other lead-acid battery. Unfortunately, many chargers will not recognize or charge any battery that has been discharged below 10.5 volts. Deeply-discharged Optimas can be recharged with these chargers, by using the parallel charging technique described in this video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoaL3DWWEg

 

If you have any other battery-related questions, I’ll do my best to answer them.

 

Jim McIlvaine

eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

[StrongTyer]

Hello, I noticed your conversation regarding our batteries and wanted to offer some assistance. First and foremost, if your battery has been relocated inside of the vehicle, it needs to be properly-vented to the outside. Under normal operating conditions, an AGM battery will not vent gas. Since alternators or chargers can fail, the safest and correct mounting method for trunks and passenger compartments is to make sure that any possible gas venting will escape to the outside of the vehicle. All vehicles with original equipment battery locations in trunks or passenger compartments will have a vent provision that should be used. Optima group 27, 51, 78, 34C, and 31 batteries all have ports for connecting a vent hose.

 

Although people do it anyway, we would never recommend installing an unvented battery in any enclosed space, because there’s a legitimate, albeit unlikely, safety risk involved.

 

For example, IF there is a voltage regulator failure, and IF the battery is severely overcharged, and IF this goes unnoticed, and IF the battery vents because the internal pressure exceeds the release pressure of the vents, the gasses are both flammable and toxic. This may sound like a lot of “ifs,” but attorneys and engineers get paid to plan for every worst-case scenario.

 

StrongTyer, considering your car audio modifications, a YellowTop is really a more appropriate battery, due to its ability to be deep-cycled repeatedly. The key to long battery life is maintaining 12.4 volts or more, whenever possible. When batteries are discharged below that level, sulfation begins to occur, which diminishes performance and lifespan. If a vehicle only sees occasional use, a battery tender or maintainer is a great investment, which will help extend the life of any battery, regardless of brand. Burton is also correct about dissimilar batteries needing to be isolated from each other, if they are not the same age, size and type.

 

The quality of our batteries has always been excellent and continues to improve. The batteries we are making today are the best we have ever made and many of the “bad” batteries returned to us now are just deeply-discharged. These batteries work fine, when properly recharged. Under normal conditions, an Optima can be treated and charged just like any other lead-acid battery. Unfortunately, many chargers will not recognize or charge any battery that has been discharged below 10.5 volts. Deeply-discharged Optimas can be recharged with these chargers, by using the parallel charging technique described in this video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoaL3DWWEg

 

If you have any other battery-related questions, I’ll do my best to answer them.

 

Jim McIlvaine

eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

Thanks for the info

 

Im running the yellowtop now.....

 

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4876/img2650rf.jpg

By strongtyer at 2010-06-05

 

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/552/img2649rl.jpg

By strongtyer at 2010-06-05

 

I guess I just need to vent it and get an isolator for the power cell/ditch the power cell.

[OptimaJim]

Hi Strongtyer,

 

All lead-acid batteries can vent gas, so both of your batteries should be vented to the outside. The Group 34/78 Optima you have does not have provisions for connecting a vent tube, so your safest option might be a vented battery box. I don’t know the specifics on your wiring, but batteries wired in parallel should always be the same age, size & type. I hope that information helps!

 

Jim McIlvaine

eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

[StrongTyer]

Hi Strongtyer,

 

All lead-acid batteries can vent gas, so both of your batteries should be vented to the outside. The Group 34/78 Optima you have does not have provisions for connecting a vent tube, so your safest option might be a vented battery box. I don’t know the specifics on your wiring, but batteries wired in parallel should always be the same age, size & type. I hope that information helps!

 

Jim McIlvaine

eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

I took out the kinetic power cell. I guess it will be out of the car till I have an isolator.....plus its looking like it has a little bulge on one side

 

If these optima batteries are "dangerous" and vent gas, why dont they have a place to hook a hose on? Where is the gas going to come out?

[OptimaJim]

Optimas are no more dangerous than any other lead-acid battery and likely much safer than a flooded lead-acid battery. As I mentioned before, the chances of a battery venting are not great, but not something that should be ignored either. If your YellowTop were to get overcharged, as in the scenario I previously mentioned, the circular ports on either side of the label are designed to vent gas. These batteries are typically installed in the engine compartment, where venting gas does not present the same safety concerns as it would in an enclosed space, like a passenger compartment or trunk.

 

Jim McIlvaine

eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

www.facebook.com/optimabatteries