What could be wrong?

[1badesi]

My uncle just gave me a 1986 starion widebody it seems to have a blow by issue... it smokes quite a bit and seems to lack power the pressure builds up in the crank case and blows out the dip stick. what could be wrong? I hear piston rings might be fried?... I have all the recipts showing that the motor was rebuilt 11,xxx miles ago. I might be looking into a rebuild or a swap im not sure yet.any sugestions would be great...

[BrazilBoy]

do a compression test on it, then you will know

[1badesi]

do a compression test on it, then you will know

would the compression test tell me if its rings??

[BrazilBoy]

would the compression test tell me if its rings??

Yes and if the cylinder head may have an issue...you should get around 120psi per cylinder to be in the safe zone ...

[conquezzy]

Is the breather on top of the motor and the oil pan breather drain closed off? If so it can have the same effect.

[1badesi]

Is the breather on top of the motor and the oil pan breather drain closed off? If so it can have the same effect.

i pulled the breater off and it still ran like crap....

[Indiana]

Take the PVC hose off and plug that hose up or don't drive it until you go to the dealer and get an OEM PCV Valve, don't get any aftermarket valves from any autoparts stores get it only from the DEALER.

 

They are still using this same PCV valve and its about $6

 

You need to have your separator setup hooked up and working, boost pressure is leaking past that PCV valve and putting pressure into the crankcase and since the separator isn't there to draw the pressure out it still builds up and ends up having to become positive pressure and blow out. Your separator keeps it from ever getting built up. That pressure also makes valve seals leak some oil and that makes it smoke too.

 

Since you said its rebuilt there shouldn't be any ring problems. This motor has allot of blowby at idle anyway and under boost it has much more, just like any other motor.

[Shelby]

every parts counter guy in the country is selling pcv valves like they make a $100 off each one , problem is they sell you the wrong one,, if you still have the old one put it back on the valve cover

[BrazilBoy]

every parts counter guy in the country is selling pcv valves like they make a $100 off each one , problem is they sell you the wrong one,, if you still have the old one put it back on the valve cover

Yup...put some carb cleaner in it first rattle it back and forth to breakup the sludge and put it back on..

[1badesi]

ok so i did a compression tested on my cylinders and they all checked out at right around 116-120...So next thing for me to do is the pcv valve...Ummm dumb question where is it or should it be? My car is a little messed up last person to have it seems like they hacked crap up so the diagram on the hood didnt really help...

[1badesi]

 

You need to have your separator setup hooked up and working, boost pressure is leaking past that PCV valve and putting pressure into the crankcase and since the separator isn't there to draw the pressure out it still builds up and ends up having to become positive pressure and blow out. Your separator keeps it from ever getting built up. That pressure also makes valve seals leak some oil and that makes it smoke too.

 

Since you said its rebuilt there shouldn't be any ring problems. This motor has allot of blowby at idle anyway and under boost it has much more, just like any other motor.

When you refer to the separator what exactly are you reffering to? PCV or what? Sorry for these lame questions its all very new to me...Im used to working on my RT Twin Turbo Stealth haha

[Starfighterpilot]

When you refer to the separator what exactly are you reffering to? PCV or what? Sorry for these lame questions its all very new to me...Im used to working on my RT Twin Turbo Stealth haha

 

I suggest that you down load the '88 MITSU Starquest FSM at http://www.starquestgarage.com/manuals/service/conquest/1988/88_conquest_service_nav.html and start reading it. It has very good descriptions of the engine oil seperator and PCV systems in it.

 

For What It's Worth

 

KEN

[1badesi]

I suggest that you down load the '88 MITSU Starquest FSM at http://www.starquestgarage.com/manuals/service/conquest/1988/88_conquest_service_nav.html and start reading it. It has very good descriptions of the engine oil seperator and PCV systems in it.

 

For What It's Worth

 

KEN

Thanks thats a big help!!!

[1badesi]

ok so i di a new pcv line and cleaned the valve but it didnt change the blow by at all did plug wires and its much smoother now but still smokes...could a blown head gasket or a cracked head cause blow by?

[Starfighterpilot]

ok so i did a compression tested on my cylinders and they all checked out at right around 116-120 ...So next thing for me to do is the pcv valve...Ummm dumb question where is it or should it be? My car is a little messed up last person to have it seems like they hacked crap up so the diagram on the hood didnt really help...

 

HMMMMM!!!!!!!!! Something doesn't sound right. You said in the above posts that the engine was rebuilt 11,xxx miles ago and now only has 116 - 120 PSIG PSIG compression across the pots? It should have compression pressures between 135 - 143 PSIG. Sounds to me like this is an engine with a lot of miles on it, the piston rings were installed incorrectly or they are as you stated in your original post, the rings are fried.

 

Do you know why you were told the rings may be fried on a fairly fresh engine. Who told you this; the PO?

 

What kind of engine oil pressures are you seeing on the dash oil pressure guage after the engine is warmed up, with the tranny in neutral, at 850 - 1000 idle RPM's and at about 1700 - 2000 RPM's.

 

What weight of engine oil are you running now?

 

Check the engine rebuild's parts receipts to see exactly what parts were replaced during the rebuild.

 

BTW - What did you find out with the engine oil separator system?

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

Edited May 15, 2010 by Starfighterpilot

[1badesi]

HMMMMM!!!!!!!!! Something doesn't sound right. You said in the above posts that the engine was rebuilt 11,xxx miles ago and now only has 116 - 120 PSIG PSIG compression across the pots? It should have compression pressures between 135 - 143 PSIG. Sounds to me like this is an engine with a lot of miles on it, the piston rings were installed incorrectly or they are as you stated in your original post, the rings are fried.

 

Do you know why you were told the rings may be fried on a fairly fresh engine. Who told you this; the PO?

 

What kind of engine oil pressures are you seeing on the dash oil pressure guage after the engine is warmed up, with the tranny in neutral, at 850 - 1000 idle RPM's and at about 1700 - 2000 RPM's.

 

What weight of engine oil are you running now?

 

Check the engine rebuild's parts receipts to see exactly what parts were replaced during the rebuild.

 

BTW - What did you find out with the engine oil separator system?

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

I was told that the motor was rebuilt by the previous owner... There was no explanation of why the rings could be fried... I got the car for free so its not like im getting hosed haha that bad anyway. my uncle picked it up for 300 bucks and gave it to me for a grad gift. I have all the reciepts for the rebuild ive looked thru them all and damn alot was done the whole rotating assembly was wieghed and ballenced...well the oil separator was not hooked up there was no oil in the motor and the plug wires were trashed so there was a bad miss... i tossed some 10-40w oil in here and hooked up new plug wires and i hooked up the oil separator and it will run she just smokes alot...the turbo dosent really seem to build boost tho i know that the gauges are inaccurate but it never gets more that a tiny bit out of the vacumn area... ill check oil pressure today... btw that compression test was done when the motor was almost bone dry on oil i might give it another try??

[Indiana]

86 hose routes are different from the ones in that manual from 88

how about the head, was it rebuilt? old valve seals can cause your motor to smoke and oil in the exhaust does take some time to burn away

what color is this smoke and what does it smell like?

[1badesi]

86 hose routes are different from the ones in that manual from 88

how about the head, was it rebuilt? old valve seals can cause your motor to smoke and oil in the exhaust does take some time to burn away

what color is this smoke and what does it smell like?

Yeah I figured out they were different after,some studying... the head was rebuilt or at least that's what the receipts say...the smoke honestly smells like gas but its blue so its running rich and burning oil...it runs better without the airfilter

[1badesi]

HMMMMM!!!!!!!!! Something doesn't sound right. You said in the above posts that the engine was rebuilt 11,xxx miles ago and now only has 116 - 120 PSIG PSIG compression across the pots? It should have compression pressures between 135 - 143 PSIG. Sounds to me like this is an engine with a lot of miles on it, the piston rings were installed incorrectly or they are as you stated in your original post, the rings are fried.

 

Do you know why you were told the rings may be fried on a fairly fresh engine. Who told you this; the PO?

 

What kind of engine oil pressures are you seeing on the dash oil pressure guage after the engine is warmed up, with the tranny in neutral, at 850 - 1000 idle RPM's and at about 1700 - 2000 RPM's.

 

What weight of engine oil are you running now?

 

Check the engine rebuild's parts receipts to see exactly what parts were replaced during the rebuild.

 

BTW - What did you find out with the engine oil separator system?

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

The oil pressure is right below the middle line @ idle close to1000 rpm @ 1700-2000 rpm its just above the middle tick mark ...

[Indiana]

Your car have a 1G MAF or you know what that is? You said it works better with the air filter off, ok disconnect the MAF and take it out, look at it from the flange the filter mounts to out to the end, now compare that to the filter. Those DSM filters are NOT meant for a stock Conquest/Starion MAF or a 1G MAF unless the 1G MAF uses the 1G MAF LID. If you put the filter on with a (longer) 1G MAF on a stock C/S lid, you end up with only about 1/4" gap to suck in all the air the MAF sucks in and meters. If its gets hot it will just suck to the end and all the air goes through the bypass tube in the MAF.

 

What are the letters stamped on the injectors?

[1badesi]

Your car have a 1G MAF or you know what that is? You said it works better with the air filter off, ok disconnect the MAF and take it out, look at it from the flange the filter mounts to out to the end, now compare that to the filter. Those DSM filters are NOT meant for a stock Conquest/Starion MAF or a 1G MAF unless the 1G MAF uses the 1G MAF LID. If you put the filter on with a (longer) 1G MAF on a stock C/S lid, you end up with only about 1/4" gap to suck in all the air the MAF sucks in and meters. If its gets hot it will just suck to the end and all the air goes through the bypass tube in the MAF.

 

What are the letters stamped on the injectors?

haha I kinda get what your saying... the car had a K&N in it for what its worth. there is a big BOV on the car but it doesnt function at all, I took it off and swapped it with my HKS SSQV from my Stealth and it didnt function either. the vacumn line worked fine to the bov but would the bov not work cause major problems? also what was on these cars from the factory for a recirculation valve and where was it located?

[1badesi]

Bump!!

[Starfighterpilot]

Your car have a 1G MAF or you know what that is? You said it works better with the air filter off, ok disconnect the MAF and take it out, look at it from the flange the filter mounts to out to the end, now compare that to the filter. Those DSM filters are NOT meant for a stock Conquest/Starion MAF or a 1G MAF unless the 1G MAF uses the 1G MAF LID. If you put the filter on with a (longer) 1G MAF on a stock C/S lid, you end up with only about 1/4" gap to suck in all the air the MAF sucks in and meters. If its gets hot it will just suck to the end and all the air goes through the bypass tube in the MAF.

 

What are the letters stamped on the injectors?

 

HHHHMMMM!!!! A blow off valve suddenly rears it's ugly head! What other modifications have been done to the engine's systems/circuits that you know of? Check your reciepts.

 

The Starquests came from the factory OEM with NO BOV's or BOV recirculation systems.

 

OK, have you checked out what Indy has posted above? Wha' 'ja find? Can you take a couple of pictures of your air filter canister, air filter & it's lid with the MAF/MAS and post it, so he can see what it is?

 

What does your Lady do with the BOV completely blocked off/removed and it's OVCP hole plugged?

 

Remove the Over the Valve Cover (OVCP) pipe at the TB. Start your Lady let her idle and, using a flash lite, see if the spray pattern of the injectors are good (good even misty spray pattern). When you stop the engine is there any dribbling/weepage of gas by one or both of the injectors into the TB bore. If so, that injector is leaking. If not, then stuff a clean rag in the TB bore and leave it in there for a couple of minutes. Then pull it out and check for evidence of gas leakage. Wha' 'ja find.

 

To see the ID letters/numbers on your injectors you may have to pull 'em. They're etched on the injector metal barrel. What are they?

 

Are the plastic pieces which the injector wiring pig tail plugs into black? Wha' 'ja find?

 

What do the injector electrical pig tails look like? Hard, aged and crusty? If so, you need to order new ones from Randy (DAD) here on the boards. http://www.enginemachineservice.com/conquest.html If you don't need 'em, at the very least, clean the female electrical connectors with a nail file or emery board until they are shiney brite. Wha' 'ja find?

 

Have you taken a set of ohm readings on the injectors yet? If so post your results. They should be less than 3 ohms. If more than that, that injector is most probably shot. Remember to clean the male electrical connectors with a emory board until they're shiney before ohm testing 'em. Wha' 'ja find?

 

If the ohms check out good, then send both of the injectors off to Witch Hunters to be cleaned and tested. http://www.witchhunter.com If one or both injectors have high ohms then post in the Items Wanted Forum, for one or two known good ones. Send 'em off to Witch Hunters to have them cleaned and tested before installing 'em. Wha' 'ja do?

 

Is your '86 intercooled? If so, check all of the intercooler tubing/piping joints for rips, cuts and joint clamp tightness? If she's not intercooled, check what 'ya got. Especially check the turbo suction accordian hose and all of it's connections. Wha' 'ja find?

 

Are the insides of the tubing to the TB coated with oil? Wha' 'ja find?

 

Take the turbo suction accordian hose off of the turbo inlet and spin the turbo compressor wheel and see if it turns freely. Check for any pools of oil inside the compressor housing by the compressor wheel? Wha' 'ja find?

 

Is the waste gate actuator sensing line hooked up to the turbo waste gate actuator? Your actuator should only have one nippleIf so suck on the end of the tubing and see if the actuator will hold a vacuum. Ordinarily that actuator sees pressure and vacuum. We just want to see if it's diaphram has no leaks. Wha' 'ja find?

 

Is the waste gate actuator rod hooked to the waste gate lever pin? Wha' 'ja find?

 

Have you hooked up the engine's vacuum tubing to its correct locations yet; using the diagram on the underside of the hood? Wha' 'ja do?

 

Sounds like you have had your engine running but poorly. After running her for a minute or so to get everything oil up, shut her down and take another set of "cold" compression readings. Wha' 'ja get?

 

Altho the following Starquest FAQ Post was specifically written for the '87, '88, and '89 Starquests, it is a basic guide which should apply to your '86. Along with the the '86 FSM, http://www.starquestgarage.com/manuals/service/conquest/1986/86_conquest_service_nav.html use the '88 to suppliment trouble shooting your Lady. http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=66449

 

Was the PCV hose that you replaced between the PCV and the TB base plate, a preformed non collapsible hose? If you just used regular hose, it may be collapsing still causing the oil burning problem. Wha' 'ja install?

 

Valve seals may be dried out. How long did your Lady sit before you got it & started it for the first time?

 

Look in your rebuild receipts and see if the valve guides were replaced. Wha' 'ja find?

 

I might have missed something or got something wrong in my above long winded blurb. But I'm sure someone will add to it or correct me.

 

Answer each of the questions above. And provide the requested pictures if you can. It's information that we need to cover all of the bases so we know what you are dealing with, as far as the exhaust oil smoke, low boost, engine running pig rich.

 

I "think" that the Starquest FAQ's covers taking a set of '86 error codes. Have you taken a set of error codes yet? If not do so. Wha' 'ja get?

 

Don't forget to answer Indy's questions.

 

Positive note: You have good engine oil pressure.

 

Your work's cut out for you to get us the answers to each of the above questions. Only then we can knowlegibly help.

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

 

BTW - Before you start your Lady's engine again, check your engine oil for gas saturation. Use the "sniff" test on the dip stick. If you smell gas dump that load of oil and add new oil.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Starfighterpilot

[1badesi]

Dang I got my work cut out for me this upcoming weekend ill post wut I find thank u for all the thoughts and ideas.