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My 4g63 and t-56 swap (TONS OF PICTURES


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#81 SFBMX88

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 11:24 AM

If your pcm has a tach output signal wire, you should be able to wire it to the factory tach.  Keep trying with your imgur account.  It should give you multiple embed option links.  Iíve been using it for years with no issues.





#82 TsTKl

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 07:09 PM

I got the impression based on the circuit diagram for the 1g dsm that the transistor pack creates the tach signal, not the ecu. In any event I was able to create that circuit with a fairly simple circuit which replicates the signal. I still need to figure out the speed signal circuit but I have a feeling my test bench is creating the issues more so than my circuit design. Based on the information I have been able to collect on the VGS rack it appears to be fairly stand alone. I'm thinking that worst case scenario I would make the system manually operated in a "set it and forget it" manner for a given track/driving day. I believe I have all of the components to make it work like the OEM system on the s2000 except for the wiring harness plugs for the high current circuit on the controller for the rack. Unfortunately they are unique to the VGS cars. All of the wiring is done now except for the steering rack though so at least there's that. I am in the process of rebuilding the rack I got as there was some damage to it and I wanted to better understand how it works. Unfortunately there are quite a few specialty tools needed to fully disassemble it so I won't get it all the way apart. Something is better than nothing though.
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#83 TsTKl

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 01:28 AM

I weighed the car today, unfortunately it's a lot heavier than I had hoped. 2676 lbs without fuel, driver, coolant, steering rack, steering rack ecu, timing belt, crank pulley, water pump pulley, water pump belt, alternator belt, and an exhaust heat shield. I estimate it will be 3070 fully laden with driver. The weight distribution should be 49/51 with a full tank of gas though shifting to about 51.5/48.5 as the tank empties. I'll weigh the car again once it's running but I guess I added quite a bit of weight (***cough t-56 cough***)
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#84 TsTKl

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 11:09 PM

Well the car hasn't made as much progress as I would have liked but it has made some progress. I was looking to start the engine last month but couldn't get the ECU to connect to my laptop to set up the injector size. I tore into the wiring harness again and fixed a few small issues. It appears the factory ETACS system provides power to the gauge cluster and the reed switch in the speedo grounds that signal to create the pulse signal that gets sent to the ECU. My T-56 setup is wired backwards from that, which is somewhat irrelevant since that signal goes to a conditioning circuit that converts the signal from GM to mitsu which needs to be powered anyways. I also had wired the wideband and speedo conditioning circuit to "room" which is always powered instead of a switched powered source which seemed to be pulling down power on that circuit quite a bit. Anyways these fixes didn't seem to change the ECU powering on issues so I'll need to dig in again and see what's up. Hopefully it's something stupid like a connector unplugged. I recently upgraded to DSMLINK V3 so the daughterboard is new.

Also on the steering rack front I've now purchased 3 service manuals from japan trying to find the OEM wiring diagram for the S2000 Type V VGS system to no avail. I've moved on to purchasing complete brand new OEM wiring harnesses which will get quite expensive quite quickly but should allow me to at least put this issue to bed. All of the parts for the steering rack itself are in now so I was able to rebuild half of it last weekend and will finish the other half next weekend. I highly recommend no one ever try and service any S2000 steering rack, let alone the VGS version. You literally couldn't pay me enough to do this again. A new OEM VGS rack is $6000 and after all this feels more or less worth it. If it wasn't for the corona virus I probably would have flown to japan to buy some parts myself that's how bad this whole process has been. The car is effectively ready to go other than these two gremlins...
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#85 TsTKl

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 10:17 PM

So today I finally got everything on the engine side together and tried to crank the engine. The fuel system for some reason isn't working. I'm going to look into it tomorrow, I have a feeling the surge tank pump is outflowing the main tank pump and therefore can't develop pressure. I'm going to prime the system and see if that helps.

Other than that, the steering rack is all ready to go and I have the mounts cut and bent but need to weld them up. Once that's done technically the car could be driven, but wouldn't have power steering or 3 point seatbelts. There's a handful of other small things that need to be cleaned up before I'll be happy with it but I could drive it once the steering rack is in. I hope to have the car movable before 2021, so it's crunch time. I plan to break the engine in on the dyno so once it is in a movable state I'll get it towed to the dyno and break the motor in.
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#86 TsTKl

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 12:50 AM

https://youtu.be/XUDBK7OxSHE

Apparently I wired the ignition coil backwards. The steering rack mounts aren't done but a little progress was made. The car won't move before the end of the year but it shouldn't be too long into 2021 before it does. The lifters cleared up after the video.
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#87 tux

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 08:09 PM

Looks good

#88 TsTKl

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 01:15 AM

thanks

Technically, the car is now drivable. There's a long list of small things I want to take care of before I actually go for a drive, and most likely I'll be towing the car to a dyno to have the engine broke it before I actually drive it, however if I needed to drive the car for some reason I could.
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#89 cheesey

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Posted 09 January 2021 - 06:21 AM

Looks great! Hopefully its ripping soon!

#90 TsTKl

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 10:25 PM

So mini update, I'm trying to arrange to break the engine in on the dyno. The steering column support bearing I added seized while setting the front toe so I need to redesign that, and I did a boost leak test and found a few pinhole leaks on some of the welds so I'm replacing the intercooler pipes with aluminum ones now that I'm a much better welder than I was 7 years ago. Lastly, the inner tie rod end on the drivers side was a bit too short so I ordered a longer one. I also was able to clean up a ton of small details around the car so once these issues are fixed I should be able to break the motor in and push it pretty hard without worrying about too much. The coolant system leaking would be my next biggest concern.
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#91 TsTKl

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 01:00 PM

Another update, I was able to finish the new steering support bearing and get it all installed. The steering rack mounts are 100% done and painted and in, and the longer tie rod is in as well. I have a shorter tie rod for the passenger side but I'm going to try and do an alignment first and see how it turns out. I cut about 10mm off the end of the current inner tie rod but the nut may bottom out next. I plan to put the car back on the ground today and fix a few more pinholes I found in the intake pipe, as well as replace some of the rubber vac lines with silicone stuff and the car should be ready for an alignment and first drive this weekend. The boost leak testing is to the point where I think I hear something but the system holds pressure for multiple minutes with a pretty slow leakdown rate so I'm sure there's only small stuff left. It's possible since I'm testing nearly everything that those leaks are "by design" such as the charcol canister. I do know the top flange of the BOV is leaking however it's extremely small and other than putting RTV on it there isn't much I can do.
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#92 obsolete

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 02:56 PM

Awesome, I'd love to see some pictures of the steering setup if you can post them.
Small boost leaks are no big deal IMO, but there shouldn't be a boost leak into the charcoal canister. If there isn't a check valve there already, you can install one between the intake and the purge valve. Air only needs to flow from the canister into the intake when the intake is under vacuum, never the other direction.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.

#93 TsTKl

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 05:49 PM

I'm going to try and make a video as it's probably easier to just upload one thing to youtube than to do a bunch of photos. There's quite a bit of custom work on the steering setup but it's pretty awesome so far.

Regarding the boost leaks I actually just went out and bought a 20 gallon air compressor so I could do more extensive boost leak testing. The charcoal canister is opening over a certain pressure or something, I was able to pinch the line with a clamp and the noise went away. There were also a few vac lines that had the wrong size hose clamps on them so now that's updated. Perhaps the check valve on the charcoal canister is just old and weak.

Another update, last friday I actually drove the car down my driveway and back up it. I found the ISC is "wrong" in that it's from a 90 while the car is wired for 91+. Apparently there are some differences there. I could rewire the 90 ISC but ended up just buying a 91+ ISC that's new so I don't have to worry about it. There are a few other changes that are going on and I hope to have the car on the dyno by the end of the month.
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#94 TsTKl

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Posted 15 March 2021 - 12:30 AM

Another update. As of today I am considering the car mechanically "done". There are a few electrical gremlins I'm still chasing (speedo, tacho, reverse solenoid/brake lights), but the car starts and drives and even has a shift boot. I suppose the one caveat to that is that the power steering doesn't work. While the primary reason why it doesn't work is because it isn't wired up, I also do need to find a place to mount the VGS ECU, which is a mechanical thing. I wanted to post a few pictures anyways to celebrate this milestone.

Here's the engine bay, with new aluminum upper and lower intercooler pipes, and a new cx racing radiator:
https://live.staticf...db97fd32c_b.jpg

Here is what a disassembled S2000 Type V steering rack looks like:
https://live.staticf...10c4ea620_c.jpg

Here is what it looks like re-assembled:
https://live.staticf...c6dca0469_b.jpg

And here is a very custom/overbuilt steering column support bearing that will never fail:
https://live.staticf...4aff91e59_c.jpg

And here is the last piece to the puzzle on the mechanical side, a shifter boot so I stop dropping bolts onto my driveshaft:
https://live.staticf...2306d2eba_c.jpg

there's a ton more that I've done over the last few years that still hasn't been documented. I don't know if I'll ever get around to it, but given that this is a dying/dead platform I'm sure no one will miss it too much. I'm super excited to get the car on a dyno and break the motor in and finally enjoy this thing. Obviously it's a never ending thing that will continue to evolve and change as I drive it and my tastes change etc. I'm always looking to pull weight out of this thing and I'm still on the stock brakes/wheels so expect those to change sooner than later (by my definition, not yours).

Edited by TsTKl, 15 March 2021 - 12:35 AM.

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#95 TsTKl

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 06:48 PM

So another update. I went ahead and towed the car to road race engineering and put it on the dyno monday. The car had a few known issues (tach/speedo didn't work, power steering isn't wired up yet) but overall I felt like it was pretty much ready. We didn't get much running in and had a bit of a mishap at the end but overall I'd say it was a good step forward.

First thing that happened was we warmed the car up and saw that the ECU coolant temps didn't agree with the temp gauge on the dash, and the fans weren't kicking on when they were supposed to. We shorted the temp sensor out so the fans would always be on and continued running but were still working through some temperature anomalies. To make a long story short I think the water at the temp sensor is stagnant and therefore getting hotter than the rest of the system. The fans turn on when the fan switch sees the correct temperature based on the thermocouple measurements we took and it seems like the thermostat opens correctly too. So to rectify this I plan on re-doing the rear coolant housing and placing the sensors closer to the thermostat so they read water that's in the fluid stream.

While we were working through the coolant issues the starter motor took a dump. Looking back there were some signs it was going out anyways so I'm not surprised but I think the low voltage caused by the fans being constantly on was the nail in the coffin. I was able to get a replacement as it's just a typical 1g dsm starter thanks to RRE but I'll need to pick up a rebuilt one to sleep sound.

After sorting all that we started running the car more. We heard a sudden loud screeching noise and after some additional inspection found that the cam sensor trigger wheel bolts had backed out. As a reminder I'm running a 95-96 style 2g cam position sensor which has the trigger wheel in the cam gear. I'm running the stock bolts with AEM adjustable cam gears. Upon further inspection it appears the AEM cam gear cannot be used with the factory bolts for this cam position sensor as the grip length on the bolts are about 3mm while the washer and trigger wheel only stack up to 2.2mm. So the bolt runs out of threads before engaging the head of the bolt. This isn't an issue on the stock cam gear as it's a stamped steel piece and the punching process creates an artificial countersink which gives the clearance needed. 3 of the four bolts backed out, one of them broke after coming into contact with the cylinder head and valve cover. After the bolt broke it took a trip through the timing gears and punctured the timing belt in two places. The tensioner pulley lost tension, so I'm guessing the bolts made their way through the belt there and the load caused the bolt to loosen. There's a chance I've got a bent valve but I'm hoping that isn't the case.

The path forward now is to replace the coolant housing, and I've decided to do a few upgrades. I'm converting to 100% evo 9 timing gear (belt/engine mount/idler pulley/tensioner arm/tensioner/tensioner pulley) as I already have an evo 8 front case and I expect everything should bolt up. I'm also converting to a 99 style cam angle sensor on the back of the intake cam shaft. I'm anticipating it will be difficult to fit between the head and the firewall, so I may have to make some modifications. I also realized that the 1g cam angle sensor has a substantially different timing trigger than the 95 sensor I was using, which was causing a CEL.

http://www.roadracee...g-waveforms.htm

as a result I've gone ahead and picked up the trigger for the 2g as well as the evo trigger. I'm expecting some welding/machining will be involved to get the ECU the signal it's looking for but we'll see if one of them is closer (the evo one looks closer but also spins backwards).

So the car's going to be down for a while but it saw boost on the dyno and made turbo noises. We also found a weak link and proved out a few things on the car itself. The launch control feature in DSM link was holding us back because the speedometer wasn't working so I'll need to fix that too.
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#96 TsTKl

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 07:02 PM

A slight tangent that I wanted to post in a separate post regarding the timing upgrade I'm doing. Since the engine is mounted longitudinally and I am not using the forward engine mount that would typically be used in a DSM/evo, I can effectively run any mount I want so long as it bolts up. One of the guys at RRE was questioning whether I had the right parts for timing so I looked into it more. I have a 1g 7 bolt which isn't too common in the performance aftermarket world. Here is what I found.

The 1g 6 bolt uses what I'll call a 1g idler mount, 1g tensioner arm, 1g tensioner pulley, and a 6 bolt hydraulic tensioner. The service manual instructs you to tighten the belt by rotating the pulley clockwise and then torquing the bolt. As you torque the bolt for the tensioner pulley it tightens the belt.

The 1g 7 bolt has a revised part number for the hydraulic tensioner, and the tensioner arm is the same casting but a different machining to clearance some additional things. Importantly, the hydraulic tensioner occupies the same space as on the 6bolt, that is to say the axis of the rod and the mating surface is in the same point in space. At this point I am uncertain which direction was intended to tighten the belt.

the 2g 7 bolt has what I'll call a 2g idler mount, 2g tensioner arm, 2g tensioner pulley, and 2g hydraulic tensioner. The idler mount which also has the pivot point for the tensioner arm was revised to move the pivot down and towards the intake side of the engine. This required an increased length for the tensioner arm. The 2g is designed to tension the belt by rotating the tensioner pulley counter clockwise, which is opposite from a 1g 6 bolt. This is good because even though tightening the tensioner pulley bolt loosens the belt slightly, any rotation from the pulley will result in the bolt getting tighter, not loser. The knock on effect this has is it reduces the motion ratio between the hydraulic tensioner and the belt. A 1mm travel at the hydraulic tensioner will now result in less travel at the belt due to the fact that the contact point between the pulley and belt has moved closer to the pivot. By moving the pivot down and away from the pulley and lengthening the arm, this effect is mitigated somewhat.

It is this review of the design of the three systems that has led me to decide to upgrade to the evo equipment. I'm not sure if the geometry was revised further between the 2g and the evo however, if it was I can't help but imagine that it was in the interest of reducing the likelihood of bending valves. Since I've confirmed that the 1g 7 bolt can accept the evo front case already, the idler mount is the only variable left that I need to line up in order for this system to work. Based on photos the bolt configurations looks to have remained unchanged over the years. It is also worth noting that I did have to grind my 1g idler mount in order to make it fit. This is probably due to the fact that the tensioner arm pivot is in a different location on the evo.
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