Shelby

right Marc and we have a tool that has never been avaliable to guys befor in history a computor forum thanks to ryddlers money and time , it's kind of like haveing a 500 man pit crew , we would have love'd one of these back in the 60's when it was basicly every man for him self , to learn by trial and error, and if some one did tell you something it was hard to trust them cause no one gives out infor to alow them selves to be beaten any thing that work'd was a closely guard'd secret

while makeing for a LOT of reading these couple of threads are very intersting , some of the best stuff we've had on here in yr's that said i got a question, what if this drop off in power has nothing to do with what we're talking about, what is the diff is Mike's first dyno run and this one what is the same we can asume it's got nothing to do with the the intake cause every thing is diff aslo on the first run the dist was stock right , and on the last run it was control'd by the SDS, so at a glance i'd say it wasn't the timeing altho the engine was damage'd due to heat , timeing or what have you, that still don't explain the 4500rpm wall he ran into where was the cam timeing on the first run and the last, was any thing change'd in the cam , lets say the cam is running late and it stop'd the power at higher rpms from being made, even with more fuel and boost , is it the same cam , has the cam timeing been check'd as per the cam spec sheet ?? any changes in the cam .. etc from the first run and the last ? now how about the exhaust system, several questions about the exhaust houseing being a bottle neck and limeting the max out put, well we got several guys claiming strong pull right up to 7 k, so whats the story here is or is not the exhaust houseing a restrictor to max power in higher rpm's , now is there some thing in Mike exhaust system thats limiting the amount of air flow thru it , cause this engine starts out like a rocket makeing power and just stops , way short of what most guys are claiming to be running theres to , is there some thing else in the set tup that is not being adress's that should be , theres thing i am also real interst'd in find ing out befor i bolt this 20g and mpi intake on , right now i have no problem pulling right thru the 4500 on up to 6 k real strong, i know that not with a dyno run but you can feel the power building right thru it could he have a inner wall on the exhaust houseing seperateing and blocking some of the flow, i say this cause my old 83 12a melt'd the exhaust houseing walls and they nearly flow'd out of shape actually burning a hole in two places thru the houseing just question s knock um down chew um up and throw them away , but there is some thing odd here other then the damage done to the pistons

i ment that i wasn't trying to question the expert's ,not that i was one in any sence of the word , i'm just an old "wrench" here to learn like a lot of others a lot of very intersting stuff has come up in these last few threads

Mike i would n't question the experts but heres a little lesson learn'd running chyr big block 440's with two carder AVS's the stock carb's wouldn't hold more then 12lb of fuel pressure befor pushing the neddle and seat off causeing flooding, so with the two carbs the problem was solve'd by running 3/8 fuel line and not the 5/16 they came with , this alow'd us to use less fuel pressure, and still maintain engought fuel at 10 psi to keep both carbs full point being theres two ways of moveing fuel , volume and pressure , a larger line will always alow the same amount of fuel to be deliver'd at much less pressure then a smaller one will almost all inj's have an ideal fuel pressure working range where they can maintain a proper atomization of the fuel , too much or too little pressure up sets this pattern , even if as he says the 5/16 could flow enought to maintain the proper fuel volume, i can't see what haveing a larger fuel line could hurt, it would at the very least help keep the fuel pressure from haveing to be rasie'd too much , alowing the pulse width to do the mixture corecting as it should with out a sevier raise in fuel pressures , but i guess this will al be work'd out by next yr or hopefuly it will , trial and error gets real expensive huh

Chip for some unknow reason my stock reg is giveing me 40 lbs at idle and 56 at 10 lbs of boost , now with the stock air mass that gave me two some times slighlty more green lights, now with the 1g air mass i got 4 some time 5 leds green under 10 lb boost , any reason you can come up with for that and how does the volume of fuel available in you fuel line effect the pressure drop, like the amount of fuel in the 8mm lines at x amount of pressure and the same pressure in 3/8 's or larges lines, and all turbo'd cars i have ever work'd on had at least 3/8 fuel lines, these are the first i ever saw with 8mm lines , seems the 3/8's lines should have at least 200% more fuel in them then the 8mm ones i sure wish those dyno runs had a fuel pressure chart on them also, that'd help

after degreeing my cam on the rr i had to change the timeing chain and grears at 10k or less to maintain the proper cam specs, but it was well worth it also a few yr's a go the boss had an 86 jag with a 400 cid 4bolt chev v8 , nice cam carter carb and all, well we gain'd 50 hp just from degreeing the cam , and that was new gm parts, they were off by 24 degrees late brand new, and that chain is many times shorter then our's

has any one realy degree'd their cam to see just where it is opening, how close it may or may not be to the spec's set for it as for cam grinds , even a 284 isn't very agressive, most hi po v8's run a factory 276, and even the 292 isn't much better in a v8, i've use'd all of them 292's 300 310, 320 and even a 336 crane 550 lift roller with rev kit, any thing over a 310 requires a standard tranny or one heck of a hi stall convertor for street use, we had a 3500 stall on the crane roller and 2k was as low as it would idle and stay running, at 2200 the slicks would try to turn on you lol so whats the idea of going to say 300 degrees , i know the idle quallity would suffer a lot , i have never been fond of high lift cams, too many valve spring problems seem to always be arround, but it sure should put the power band up and into the 6k 6500 rpm range with the cam properly degree'd in

;)Chip i caught the drift that you weren't the originator of that long wind'd explanation but you still deserve the credit for finding and posting good work ;D Lizz i wasn't picking on you just trying to add a little humor to a real serious topic, besides i knew you could handle it i know i'm not as savy as a lot of you guys on the make up of the fuel they sell us these days , but being from the old school so to speak , i've been wondering if your problems aren't relate'd to the fuel they are selling to day, in the 60's you had sunoco 105 or 106 octane and altho they try to tell you todays gas is just as good with modifie'd formula's beleave me there's no comparison to it one thing you could tell is the ability of it to still be useable a couple yr's after it has set in a gas can, another thing if you left it in an open container for very long the container was empty , not so with this stuff today it may loose a little volume but it may as well be water for it sure won't burn but will stink to high heaven another thing i learn'd is that most people think of gas in reverse, they think high test burns faster then reg , well that backwards, reg burns much faster and has a tendency to explode much more so then high test, the higher the octane the slower more control'd the compustion chamber ignition is , causeing a nice smooth power makeing expantion, with reg gas and high compustion chamber pressures this fast burning can cause flash fireing inside of the head chamber , or more then one fireing lines burning at one time , the multipul fireing or burning area's cause an explosion when they meet, , this is where you get the damage , it's super high pressure wave and very high temps , that may be in isolate'd spots in the head or piston area, i can remember seeing a demostarion of this useing a long plastic tube and a few drops of reg and some of high test, first he use'd the high test gas , cap'd the ends and use'd a ball to roll from end to end to mix the vapors, then ignit'd one end of the tube, the resulting flame wall with the high test start'd at the ignition point and travel'd smoothly down the tube and end'd with a nice poopth sound at the end, now when he did the same test with reg , the flame wall start'd to move along the tube but at mid way the flame flash'd to the other end and start'd to burn from both ends , and when they came togather it sound'd like a cannon going off , this was the best visual aid i'd to this day ever seen to explain the spark knock or pinging we get with a gas engine, sorry for being so long wind'd but i'm wondering if it's the fuel we're useing causeing this damage to the engines , because no matter how much they claim diff there is no way to compair the old lead'd high test fuel to this junk they sell today, just my 2 cents

dang Chip you did manage to stay awake thru most of them clases, j/k now don't get all upset if you see the outter area of your piston all wet looking and clean this can be cause'd by excessive oil getting by the oil rings also what Chip is talking about is a dry clean no oil at all, and as for Lizzords engine the only thing on earth that'l save that engine is him losseing the car keys sooner or later it's going to go bang hehe much later we hope Lizz ;D not sure if it's help'd hold it togather but one of the first things he did was go to a 3/8 fuel line and a larger pump

if those numbers are right , that is deff a good one for the FAQ forum good work

Joel you said >>What are you using to test your A/F ratio? if your using a narrow band O2 sensor, I can tell you that what your experiancing is MUCH different then the "reported" O2 readings. Narrowbands will not read accurately at all except for a narrow area (14.3-14.9:1 or so) and the farthar away it gets from that, the worse off the readings become. I can tell you from personal experiance with a NB A/F gauge/o2 sensor that I have gotten 13:1 or so on the gauge and 9:1 A/F on an external wideband at a dyno. Joel is their any 02 sensors that we can use that will give a better reading on the air fuel mix or whats the best one to use

question are ALL componets with the kit, and did you try a shield's wire for the tach signal , i once use's a cb coax cable (strand'd ) for one on a m-benz 02 sensor

what size t/b did you end up with  looks like about a 70mm is it and whats it off of darn nice job , and i see you kept the dist , what ecu are  you useing i  have no plans on going so far with my intake system, but  your trouble with the 20g has  me worried about useing mine on my set up ,just want to liven it up a bit , not go all out draging with it,,,  can't wait to see your  dyno chart