apedog Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I know that bad injectors give you terrible gas mileage but every time I take the car out it burns oil. I came home yesterday and I was below the line of where my oil should even be at a minimum. So my question is do bad injectors have something to do with the oil being burned as well?? starquest ix says bad injectors will drip gas and ruin oil? Idk any suggestions? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Bad injectors may cause gas to flow past the piston rings and end up in the oil pan - which ruins the oil. But you won't have oil burning or loss of oil from bad injectors. If you loose oil that quickly, either an oil hose/pipe is busted (oil filter block to turbo, oil cooler hoses, etc), you are missing the rear engine oil seal, missing the front of the oil pan gasket, a busted oil pressure sending unit (the solder seam eventually gives up on these things, shooting oil upwards), doubled-up gaskets on the oil filter (two gaskets = huge leak between them when the oil is under pressure) etc. Something MAJOR. I'd expect either a really wet engine, puddles under the car after driving, or a lot of exhaust smoke if you are actually burning that much oil that quickly. mike c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apedog Posted August 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) Bad injectors may cause gas to flow past the piston rings and end up in the oil pan - which ruins the oil. But you won't have oil burning or loss of oil from bad injectors. If you loose oil that quickly, either an oil hose/pipe is busted (oil filter block to turbo, oil cooler hoses, etc), you are missing the rear engine oil seal, missing the front of the oil pan gasket, a busted oil pressure sending unit (the solder seam eventually gives up on these things, shooting oil upwards), doubled-up gaskets on the oil filter (two gaskets = huge leak between them when the oil is under pressure) etc. Something MAJOR. I'd expect either a really wet engine, puddles under the car after driving, or a lot of exhaust smoke if you are actually burning that much oil that quickly. mike c. Its not smoking and theres no puddles underneath but the only thing i see is partly wet block near the turbo side. I have heard something about the oil seperator being able to burn oil but idk. but im gonna see about those injectors tomorrow. Edited August 19, 2009 by apedog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 To check the oil in these cars isn't exactly the same as in other cars. The dipstick goes into a tube that is along side the oil pan. Near the top of the oil level is a tiny vent tube that runs over to the tube the dipstick goes in to. The dipstick has a rubber seal at the top. Level out the car, pull the dipstick up an inch or so then wait a minute. Pull the stick out, wipe it off and then check it. You must give the oil a change to equalize in that tube to what is it over in the oil pan. Most dipsticks just poke through the pan or block and go do into the sump where is oil is just laying there but not this car. If you just break the seal on the dipstick and check it quickly most times it will be wrong. It may read high it may read low. That vent passage gets oil slopped in it and that means that tube can't breathe until it drains back out and with the seal at the top the oil level in the tube is effected by crankcase pressure, stopping or sharp turns etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Mine burns a quart every 300 miles but that from my turbo seal mostly and leaking oil pressure sensor..to verify do what I did I cleaned that are with 409 hosed it off drove then you will see it seep out.. The bad gas mileage can be from vacuum lines getting old and leaking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 gas in the oil,, simple the oil is thin'd out and burn'd right along with the gas,, now your deff in a bad situation and the next thing on your list is trash'd engine and turbo brgs change the oil and drain the oil cooler , this may need to be done several times with a few miles on it to help vaporize the left over gas out of the oil but then FIND and fix the cause for the over fueling,, most likely a sticking inj,, or injs on the wrong inj clip,,useing too big of an inj,, sec inj on the pri inj clip, ets,, one run under boost can distroy the engine completely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apedog Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 figured out part of the problem was one of the vacumm near the throttle body was off and another was about to fall off but thanks for everyones help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Well, if it's smoking or leaking oil on the turbo side, it can be several things, you may want to inspect it all anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 figured out part of the problem was one of the vacumm near the throttle body was off and another was about to fall off but thanks for everyones help What about the oil leak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 LOl yea hehe vac leak don't acount for a qt of oil in 300 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apedog Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 What about the oil leak? LOl yea hehe vac leak don't acount for a qt of oil in 300 miles i wish it was that simple haha but I cant seem to find where its leaking but I did take the ovcp pipe off and you could stick your finger and wipe old crud from the inside.Same with the pipe going to the intercooler. So I guess gas is going through there as well and it shouldnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 a qt of oil in 300 miles is a LOT of oil , even if the turbo seals were leaking the oil would still be burnt, unless it was collecting in the ic, but you'd find puddles not oil film in the hoses ,,oil film is normal as any thing ,,nothing is a perfict oil seal inan engine ,,turbo engine do use a little oil it has to my truck in 10 years never use'd a qt of oil between changes thats 3k miles some times 4k miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 What color is your PCV valve? Is it silver? If it is throw it in the trash and go to your dealer and get the good one. Your oil separator is letting oil blow up the drain hose and out of the valve cover, it passes through the accordian hose and the turbo sucks it in and blows it into the intercooler and right into the throttlebody. The separator likely needs cleaned. This isn't the turbo seal, if it were that far gone it would be squealing and blowing smoke out the exhaust like a freight train. The rear seal is what goes bad first NOT the front. The rear seal is the HOT one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apedog Posted August 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) What color is your PCV valve? Is it silver? If it is throw it in the trash and go to your dealer and get the good one. Your oil separator is letting oil blow up the drain hose and out of the valve cover, it passes through the accordian hose and the turbo sucks it in and blows it into the intercooler and right into the throttlebody. The separator likely needs cleaned. This isn't the turbo seal, if it were that far gone it would be squealing and blowing smoke out the exhaust like a freight train. The rear seal is what goes bad first NOT the front. The rear seal is the HOT one. I replaced the PCV valve with another one from my dads car. What do you use to clean out the oil separator? just gas? Edited August 21, 2009 by apedog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) the fact you replace'd the pcv valve means nothing did you check to see if it was a one way valve,, you can only blow thru it in one dir,, na pcv's you can blow thru eather sirection , turbo ones you can't is the car park'd on a surface you can see oil leaks on ,,you have to be leaking oil the engine won't burn that much oil with out a real big cloud of smoke Edited August 21, 2009 by Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apedog Posted August 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) the fact you replace'd the pcv valve means nothing did you check to see if it was a one way valve,, you can only blow thru it in one dir,, na pcv's you can blow thru eather sirection , turbo ones you can't is the car park'd on a surface you can see oil leaks on ,,you have to be leaking oil the engine won't burn that much oil with out a real big cloud of smoke does it matter if its one way anyway? since it already goes out one way? Edited August 21, 2009 by apedog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 does it matter if its one way anyway? since it already goes out one way? Yes. Under VAC (idle) it is pulling thru the pcv at the same time the breather is pushing. No problem. When you go into BOOST the vac line sees boost so the PCV must shut the flow back into the valve cover. Some of these valves simply reduce back pressure a bit. The OEM unit will stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aferraro21 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Most signs of a turbo being the cause of burning oil is SHAFT PLAY. Do this quick test it will only take 20 minutes out of your day and you'll thank me. First pull the inlet boot off the front of the turbo (make sure the car is turned off). Spin the inside turbine with your finger, and on that shaft (the middle part, try to wiggle it back and forth or side to side). If you notice any play in the shaft or if the turbine isn't spinning smoothly you're probably going to need a turbo rebuild asap. Running your turbo when its running like complete junk will only lead to 1 major thing... more money out of your pocket to fix it. Second I would recommend checking the tension of the bolts on your vavle cover and oil pan. Over time your engine vibrates and those bolts work themselves loose, so get your socket bits and tighten things down, but DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN your valve cover or oil pan, I am not liable for any bolts you break from turning green and growing muscles like the hulk. Those 2 things should take you about 10 minutes, if your still burning oil you can narrow it down to 2 other things. Typically its bad vavle seals in your head, very typical of old ohv motors, or possibly rings are going bad on your pistons and oil is slipping by on your intake or exhaust strokes. Where in these 2 cases you are looking at an overhaul to fix. Not typically necessary, but will lead to premature wear of your engine if not taken care of. But not critical like the turbo recommendation I made earlier. If you're burning oil for any other reason, then you have a motor that doesn't opperate under the laws of logic. The only other reason you could be LOSING oil is because maybe you have a leak in an oil line, or somewhere around the oil pressue switch (which is usually only noticable when the car is running). Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 OEM PCV valves a a gold color. If its not gold colored then its not OEM and do not use it. The way those aftermarket valves are made, and they have all been the same since the 70s until today is they never made one worth a damn for a turbo car that will seal the boost when the check valve inside moves. The castings of them are crap. GET AN OEM ONE. They are only about 5-6.00 and they are still using these same PCV valves today on new cars. When the boost pressure can't seal closed that aftermarket PCV valve, it lets that boost pressure right into the crankcase and you have 10psi pressure BLOWING the oil right up the oil separator drain hose, it fills the separator and then it blows it right into the turbo via the accordian hose and the turbo sucks it in and blows it right into the intercooler. This has absolutely nothing to do with a blown turbo seal. If that seal is blown then the turbo will SQUEAL like a pig and it won't boost and it will smoke like a diesel pull truck on a Saturday night at a State Fair. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/misc%20p1.jpg http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/misc%20p2.jpg If you do have the front turbo seal bad then the same oil that didn't get to it didn't get to the rear seal. The rear seals almost always go out before the front seals. Seals have nothing to do with front-back play that is all thrust plate issues and as long as the wheels are not touching then it can have all the play it wants. The up/down or side-side play isn't the bearings as much as its the ring that goes inside the thrust plate. These rings can be bad and still everything works. Seals are not there to prevent side-side play at all they are sort of like piston rings. When all those pieces fail then its up to the bearings to keep the shaft lined up and the shaft is floating in oil is doesn't come in contact with those bearing and the bearings called wet bearings opposed to ball bearing. When the shaft and bearings get ate up or worn down that's when the wheels make contact. Same symptoms of bad seals in a turbo are the same symptoms you have with a failing crankcase oil separator system. You have oily front and rear wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aferraro21 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 OEM PCV valves a a gold color. If its not gold colored then its not OEM and do not use it. The way those aftermarket valves are made, and they have all been the same since the 70s until today is they never made one worth a damn for a turbo car that will seal the boost when the check valve inside moves. The castings of them are crap. GET AN OEM ONE. They are only about 5-6.00 and they are still using these same PCV valves today on new cars. If you do have the front turbo seal bad then the same oil that didn't get to it didn't get to the rear seal. The rear seals almost always go out before the front seals. Seals have nothing to do with front-back play that is all thrust plate issues and as long as the wheels are not touching then it can have all the play it wants. The up/down or side-side play isn't the bearings as much as its the ring that goes inside the thrust plate. These rings can be bad and still everything works. Seals are not there to prevent side-side play at all they are sort of like piston rings. When all those pieces fail then its up to the bearings to keep the shaft lined up and the shaft is floating in oil is doesn't come in contact with those bearing and the bearings called wet bearings opposed to ball bearing. When the shaft and bearings get ate up or worn down that's when the wheels make contact. Same symptoms of bad seals in a turbo are the same symptoms you have with a failing crankcase oil separator system. You have oily front and rear wheels. Makes sense and good advice. Diagnosing where your oil burning from can be a number of things, this is definately a better explaination of how to check to see if your turbo seals are the cause. Nice post. Good luck, tell us how it goes, keep that quest alive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apedog Posted August 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Im pretty sure its "fixed" for the time being. Before we replaced the PCV valve and cleaned the injectors you could stick your hand near the tail pipe and get black stuff all over your hand but now it dosent. Even though it wasent the turbo PCV valve it helped. Seems like oil is being less burned as well..we took the oil separator off and cleaned that out and it seems its not burning as much but a lot less than what it was. Edited August 23, 2009 by apedog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 I just ordered an OEM PCV one for mine...dang shipping cost more than the part lol..too bad Randy (DAD) was out of stock.. I am looking at a catch can for mine aswell...I run high boost I think its time to upgrade it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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