starman89 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Hello fellow starquesters! Recently i purchased and received what I thought would be the necessary secondary injector for my 89 conquest (because mine is shorted, i've been running on only the primary for months now, it sucks lol). Keep in mind the injector I needed was green with an "M" inscription on it, these were stock 2nd inj for the 87-89's. So I searched for a part out post and found one titled "parting out 88 tsi", i think perfect.. and PM him for the inj I need and he sends it real quickly. But when I get the box, the injector is black with a "J" inscription. If I'm not mistaken the 83-86 production line came with 2 of the exact same 850cc black injectors for the prim and sec (seemingly interchangeable). The "J" inscribed injector I received specifically is found only in 85 starquests. So the guy gave me an 85 injector despite his "88 part out" post and what we discussed over PMs. This is not a complaint! My questions are: A. The inj doesn't work, so is this normal? Does an 85 inj work as a secondary inj for an 89? In other words, Are they compatible? B. I'm also concerned because the car made absolutely no difference when I dropped the 85 inj in the secondary slot ( valve cover side ). So if they are compatible does that mean the inj he sent was non-working? or could it even indicate something else wrong with my car? ( side note: I was very precise and careful when I installed them and i removed and replaced both prim and sec injectors on my car and the primary works fine, so i dont think its human error causing the issue). Long story short: does an 85' injector work at all in the secondary injector slot (valve cover side) for an 89 throttle body? Thanks in advance for any insight you can give me on my situation. - A.J. :aj: :rock_band: P.S. The guy is already working on sending me the correct ( I hope ) injector by monday/tuesday so I should know the answer by then but I still wanted to discuss it all with you guys because I swear some of you guys are some sharp motherf***ers when it comes to these cars and where i live in Tucson, AZ the mechanics here are incredibly incompetant, good mechanic in my town is 1/1000. Edited June 19, 2009 by starman89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbrad511 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 The injector should fire and run the car better than having a dead secondary. It just won't run as well as it should. You sure your clips are making contact? I ran my 87 on 2 86 injectors for a quick run some years ago while mine were out being cleaned. ( I had my truck, just needed run down parts at one point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starman89 Posted June 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 That's what I'm afraid of, why did it make no difference at all? It should have helped a little at least. So your saying then for instance you can use say an 83 injector in an 88 tsi in the secondary slot and it will kick in? Now that makes me think that something else is up. God damn my car is such a mess Ive had it for over a year and I cant get anything right.... How do yo guys own and maintain these cars? Arrrrrgh!!!! thanks for the info. I guess im screwed then. Even if they guy sends me the green injector my car will probly still wont work. :character0292: why didnt i buy a civic..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coke Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 It is possible, that perhaps your injector clip for your secondary injector, has bit the dust. Your secondary injector may be just fine, but the clip may be toast. OR if the clip has been replaced already, I would check the solder point where it was fused to the harness. If it was crimped, remove it and SOLDER IT. Just a thought worth looking into. An 86 injector should run the car, and should definitely make the car run differently, as opposed to not having a working 87-89 secondary working at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starman89 Posted June 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 i paid $200 to a mechanic and he told me the sec inj was shorted could he have been dead wrong and actually the wire could be shorted? is that a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierquest Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) i paid $200 to a mechanic and he told me the sec inj was shorted could he have been dead wrong and actually the wire could be shorted? is that a possibility? yes, get new clips. I dont know the P/N but it is in the FAQ's. When you get new clips (highly suggested) they have like a 6" pigtail of wire for you to splice. Just cut the tape on your harness and install the new ones back where your wire looks better about 4-5 inches back if that. eehh i suck at explainging stuff. You would be better looking up injector clip replacement in the FAQ section. Edit: Also, Injectors that have not fired in a while do have a tendancy to get "stuck" so they wont fire. A quick check to test to see that or your secondary is good is to switch the clips around. if it starts and runs (may run poorly) the injector is good. So put your main clip on the seconday and vise versa and let us know what happens. Edited June 19, 2009 by Hoosierquest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbrad511 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 DAD sells replacement clips.. http://www.enginemachineservice.com/conquest.html And remember, the underhood temps on these cars tend to make the wiring brittle sometimes. Your secondary clip may have a broken wire down towards the harness, so make sure to feel the wires and replace as much as you need. PQ also sells them, and here's a good write up on things... http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php?t=9...738b6cea4cd3370 It'll show you how to test that "dead" secondary injector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie88TSi Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Granted, your car may very well indeed new injector clips... BUT, instead of throwing parts at the problem, and not knowing what is going on, sit down and actually try to diagnois the problem. Go down to your auto parts store and buy what is called a "noid light". Use the one for Delphi/GM injectors. This light will flash every time the computer tries to fire the injector. Keep in mind, at idle, the noid light won't flash... only when you actually gas the car. Do NOT use a test light to try and recreate the noid light. This can very well fry your injector driver or the complete ECU. No way to prove it, but that is something your previous mechanic may have done. If you go and rev up your motor and the noid light flashes, that means that everything is ok up to the injector. If the noid light doesn't flash when you try to rev the motor, then you've got a problem before the injector, either the clip, the wiring, the injector resistor, or the ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coke Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 ^ I just love having a Master ASE Mechanic on hand. He's soo smart, I just wanna pet him on the head. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 The injector gets +12volts with the engine running via the ECI fusible link, the ECI relay, and ballast resistors. Since the car runs, you know at least the primary injector is working so the fusible link and relay are okay. The ballast resistor is a 2-resistor part: one "input" wire with +12volts, it "Y"s to feed the two resistors - one per injector. So it's possible the secondary's resistor has died. To test: * disconnect the electrical clip from the secondary injector. * Start the engine and let it idle. * Using a voltmeter (analog or digital) but NOT a "mechanic's test light" probe either wire on the secondary's clip; connect the voltmeter's black/- lead to the battery - post. One clip wire should have full battery voltage. If not... it's either the ballast or the wire from the ballast to the injector. The ballast resistor is screwed to the bodywork bulkhead between the headlight and air filter box; you have to remove the air filter box to really get at it. The ECU grounds the other injector clip wire to "fire" the injector. Some tests you can do to check a few basic things: 1: engine off. Swap the electrical clip from the primary injector to your secondary. Try to start the engine. If it starts and idles, the secondary injector itself is functional. The idle will be pig-rich because the injector is flows more than the ECU expects but it should idle. Don't run for more than a minute like this because it IS so rich. If it idles more than 10 seconds, the injector is functional. 2: shut down, then re-connect the injector clips to their original/correct injectors. Start the engine and let it idle. Quickly stomp on the throttle pedal... if the engine bucks/stalls/stumbles badly, the ECU can't fire the secondary injector - and we know the injector is okay from test #1 and that it has +12volts from the voltmeter test earlier. So it must be the ECU or the wire from the ECU to the injector. If the engine revs up fairly decently, the wiring and ECU are okay... your problems are something other than the injectors. To know for sure: while the engine idles, unplug the clip on the secondary again. Repeat the mash-the-gas test; it should be MUCH worse this time with a "bad" or totally dead (disconnected) secondary. No matter what, having a too-small "J" injector as a secondary is still not enough to make the car run anywhere near correctly. You can at least putt-putt drive it but no boost, and no full-throttle accelerations since you WILL be lean. I'd even avoid highway driving. Limp along at no more than 2500 to 2800 RPMs basically - where the ECU uses the primary mostly. At some RPM and engine load, you'll feel a slight weakening of the power - as if somebody tapped the brake pedal. That's the ECU trying to bring the secondary in... at this point, your engine is running lean. Back off the throttle a bit. mike c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie88TSi Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 haha... Mike still puts me to shame as far as explaining things. ^ I just love having a Master ASE Mechanic on hand. He's soo smart, I just wanna pet him on the head. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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