89onaquest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 topic says all... This summer looking at doing the heart tranny. Going to get the car running with the 2.6, then later this summer... pop. Also, what is the better 4G64 block to get? I am just browsing Ebay, andd damn, 180 for a complete ready to run head, and another 50 for the Cyclone intake... just wish this stuff was for the 2.6... EDIT: And the engines(while yes stripped) still well under $500... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcon88 Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Are you talking about the 2.4s they used in the later D-50s and Mighty Maxs? If so I didn't think those had turbos? Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89onaquest Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Are you talking about the 2.4s they used in the later D-50s and Mighty Maxs? If so I didn't think those had turbos? Â Kurt The 2.4 were non turbo. but the some info leads me to believe that the 64/and the 63 share the same rods... I am not positive, but I have heard of many a turbo 2.4... and it will accept the DOHC 2.0L head. So more cubes... same flow rate... same basic block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcon88 Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Whoa that sounds pretty kool, keep us posted on your progress. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89onaquest Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 What I have found so far... the 63/64 Cranks are swapable. Both have the same 6 bolt pattern. OK the break down 4G64 this is the DOHC current 99-up version. This was all I could find. ??? Main source's were www.crower.com www.wiesco.com Rods... C-C 5.472 B -Bore 2.008 B-Width N/A? ??? Pin Dia .8217 22MM Pin Width N/A?? ??? Now the 4G63 DOHC for rod swap check... Already know the crank, and head will swap. C-C 5.906 B -Bore 1.890 B -Width 1.115 Pin dia .821 21 MM Pin Width 1.115 Now the 64's B Width N/A is no biggie, cause we know it has to be near/ if not the same as the 63, as the cranks are swapable. But I need to find the Pin Width on the pistons on the 64. The comp ratio on the 64 is 9.3:1. Wiesco offers the pistons on the 64 block/63 head. So you can have them changed to get a lower ratio. Or since the cranks are swapable, find a good crank, and will get a .434 shorter stroke. That will drop the ratio into a much safer range, of a low mid-high 7's. So what have we learned? swap the for the '63 crank, run the '63 rods, '64 pistons and have a very stout bottom end for pretty cheap, run a very acceptible static comp ratio. You will also be running an upper 2.2/low 2.3L engine and best of all, you will have the DOHC, and all the go fast goodies, Good cam gears, crank pullies, cams.. the list goes on that go along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_Silva Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 A 2.4L swap into a Talon/Eclipse is a fairly common swap these days. Â They don't rev like the 2L but they make bucketloads of torque. I think the question you should be asking yourself is how involved is the swap to a 4g dohc into a Quest. Â I think you will find it is very involved and without the right pieces ends up being a hair pulling experience. Â I should know, I've done it and am shortly planning to market the kit. www.starconquer.com Take care Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89onaquest Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 nice to know it has/ and can be done. But I think I will do it without your kit. I just wanted to see the technical stuff, and make sure the hardware would be compatible. I know the 2.4 has been done in the eclipse, that's why I got into looking into it on the quest. and I must say, you have alot of pages of what ifs' and maybe's, and "prices pending" but not a whole lot of here it is.. Just MHO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest340 Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Only the turbo 4g63's have the piston cooler nozzles and your not going to find a good headgasket for the 4g64. You just swap the 2.4 crank into the 2.0 assambly. Weisco makes the pistons. You'll end up with 2.3 unless you bore it way out to get 2.4. Stiffer cylinderwalls will make you more power than the extra displacement. I would stick with the 2.3 setup. I wouldn't build any serious turbo engine unless it had the piston cooler nozzles.You'll find the 2.4 crank in any wrecking yard cheap.Everything else is the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 http://4g64.150m.com/faq.html http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1g2gheadswaptechtip.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 http://www.barnonemotorsports.com/viewtecharticle.asp?Id=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 http://www.ecanfix.com/users/manualcd/gift/dsm/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 http://www.extremeevolutions.com/4G64_buildup.htm These are all the files I have saved from the past few years..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89onaquest Posted February 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Well, not breaking new ground, but I did find for myself the similarities and such of the 2 engines... and shared it with the boards ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_Silva Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 The possibility of doing the swap has been spoken of and discussed in great detail on this site and possibly others. The members who have dived in and performed the swap after reading what they saw are few and far between. I think if you were to go ahead and get the engine in the hole, rather than state your understanding for the undertaking, you would soon realize why it's not a reality for most members, as the proper parts are not available to do the swap efficiently. We're not pulling out of context that these cars came in japan with 'very basically' the same 4g63. We're dealing with a dohc head, completely different water and oil passages and a different bolt pattern bellhousing to block structure. None of this seems to faze you. It's tough to make a reality, trust me. I'm a fabricator and at times I believed it couldn't be done to my standards. I can shortly offer the community, our community the same quality and craftsmanship that their ride deserves that mine has always housed. Please do, bring forth your idea's and designs. I can guarantee that you can do the conversion from more than one angle. Please share yours... Take care Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 After going through this and eventually abandoning the project, I can somewhat concurr. The biggest problem for me was the tranny. At the time, I was waiting to get an adapter made for a beefy auto of some kind. The search lasted about 4 months, before a friend made me a deal I couldn't pass on. So it's sold.... I want to start with a different approach, if I do it again. I'm trying to find out if the SOHC wideblock, 2.0L 4g63 is actually a wideblock...Hopefully, if it is the same pattern as the 2.6. That would make things pretty nice... Being that I would prefer a strong auto, I hope the 904 will work. Then there's the FireArrow, which had the NA 2.6, but it had a 904 auto.. I've tried to get ahold of some people, that would know just how the tranny mounts to the block. Via adapter plate?? I haven't heard from anyone on that yet.... So, if the SOHC 4g63 fits into this FireArrow adapter plate...The stronger 727, or even a newer unit would be able to use this adapter, if it exists. So, essentially...In the end i'd have a DOHC 2.3L, mated to a four speed OD tranny that could handle the power that any street turbo could make. Not to mention all the electronic advantages of the DSM's. Talk about being able to TUNE. Plus, any part you could imagine, it's probably already being made and sold. Better everything, intakes mani's putting out 45hp and 30 something tq over stock, exhaust mani's, fuel up the yin yang, did I mention tunability ... Anyways, that's my street driven pipe dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89onaquest Posted February 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 I perfectly realize that the trouble is not the engine, or getting it to fit in the bay propperly. The trouble comes in way of the transmission. and once I have a trans and the engine side by side I can do the math and come up with an adapter plate. Shawn, I worked for the Navy as an airframer for over 20 years... I am no novice with it comes to making things fit the way they should. And while yes, I could get much more done with an engine sitting in front of me, I perfer to get a general idea of what needs to be done, and see the difficulty ahead, and then decide weither or not it is worth it. And the fact remains I am a student once again in college, and well... the same situation as many here, not much cash flow. That's why I said this will begin late spring/early summer. I get a 2K check in may. With that, I will buy the short block, a trans and begin work on the adapter. I decided to go with this swap for several reasons. 1. the DOHC head flow rate compared to the SOHC 2. the power capibility of the 64 3. the known duribility and ease of parts for the 63/64 4. the loss of a few pounds in the front end 5. the fact that to do the swap, and go MPI with it costs less then to do the same with the 54, and have a much better platform. 350-400 for the intake 250 in injectors 250 for the M/S and harness 500+ for the header 200 for the T/B not to mention the small smarts. And the limitation of the SOHC in just that alone I am pushing 1700+ I can get the engine, head, cyclone intake, and header for under 900. And the complete will even include the Harness and the ECM. 200 for the trans(yes a steal I know-thats why I am getting it) So I am a cheaper, and would have a much better engine/trans combo. Not to mention much faster. I am leaving 300 for small parts. And as I said in another post, I am already well aware of the 6 speed shifter location, and alreaddy have a very nice plan for it, that will only have 2-3" shifts along with it. I have no problem making the adapter plate, and I already have machine shops lined up for the task. And for 75 bucks,... well... cannot be beat. And yes, I already know when an adapter comes in, you need to space the flywheel appropriately to suit. again, no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89onaquest Posted February 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Iwill say that I plan on using a 2.4 bell housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_Silva Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 I'm supportive of your approach. Please keep us posted. A 2.4 bellhousing? Mitsu or Toyota? Take care Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89onaquest Posted February 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 mitsu, again 50 bucks for the bellhousing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_Silva Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 I don't understand. I never thought Mitsubishi produced a removeable bellhousing in a rwd transmission, especially not a KM132. I havn't actually looked at a 90-96 2.4 truck, but I would assume they are running the same trans with integrated case/bellhousing??? Hmmmm.... Are you saying you are going to use a fwd bellhousing and modify it? Thanks for your information. Take care Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89onaquest Posted February 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 I don't understand. Â I never thought Mitsubishi produced a removeable bellhousing in a rwd transmission, especially not a KM132. Â I havn't actually looked at a 90-96 2.4 truck, but I would assume they are running the same trans with integrated case/bellhousing??? Hmmmm.... Â Are you saying you are going to use a fwd bellhousing and modify it? Â Thanks for your information. Take care Shawn They did not make a RWD trans that is in 2 pieces. > But, thankfully they did make just about all their FWD cases 2 pieces ;D So, the FWD is what I am doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_Silva Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Hello, Yes, I have several fwd bellhousings. I can take pictures if you wish, for that matter, you pay the shipping and you can have one. I found it was not possible to modify accurately and reliably, and I'm a machinest. You have 3 thou to play with, any more input shaft to crank centerline runout and you run the risk of serious problems arising. Everything from input shaft wear, internal trans damage to main bearing wear and excessive thrust wear. Not to mention if your really off, the trans will be a bear to install and will bind. To do the operation properly you need to have both faces perfectly flat, thats a given. Then you need to have both faces drilled in the exact parrellel to center line. Easier said then done. Dial indicator, lots of centering templates and a hole bunch of patience, it must be bang on. Take care Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89onaquest Posted February 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 I will probly take you up on that offer. And as said before.. airframer.. I know what needs to be done. I am not looking at having this done in a week. but by the end of summer would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89onaquest Posted February 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 don't hate me for saying this but... I got my engine on hold today. The yard wants... $500 for a ENTIRE AND COMPLETE 96 4G64 engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_Silva Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Right on. But what are you going to do with it? Surely it is no good for boosted applications and being a 7 bolt will suffer from crankwalk. Surely you can find a crank for far less money and custom pistons are a must as the stock pistons will grenade over 5 lbs of boost. Sorry to burst your bubble. Take care Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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