bang4thebuck Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Hey guess what! Valve spring shims for a mopar 440 fit our heads. The ones I have are 15 thousandths and Im sure you can get other sizes and I bet other shims might work also, just take the little bottom retainer with you to your local speed shop and match em up. 15 thousanths should be good but you can go a little thicker if you want dont go too big cause you dont want them springs to bind. You will need at least 30 thousandths If you are using an old caravan head with caravan valves, caravan retainers/keepers, and quest springs. Do 45 thousandths to add a little pressure to older quest springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 great info! i have seen a post that tests were done by SHELBY, he stated that .060 shims put the old springs right in the 80 t0 85 ft lbs area, which is ideal for our requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang4thebuck Posted December 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 was that on the caravan head w/ caravan valves or on the stock head? older caravan heads have longer valves so you need to shim the springs .030 just to get them to the right installed height so do I add .060 on top of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZPI28 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 I have a non jetvalve aftermarket head off a 2.6L lebaron.. It is fairly new, it has the VOID if Removed over heat tabs on it. What would be the best to do with this head? Install Quest valves and springs? or use the valves and springs in it? Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang4thebuck Posted January 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 If it is indeed a 2.6 head and not a 2.5 use the valves that came with it and use quest springs. if the valves are longer than your quest valves use .030 shims under the springs to get the right installed height add another .030 to older springs to up the pressure a bit (no valve float good). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 what you need to pay attention to is the spring install'd heigth,, early quest was 1.6" caravan lists at 1.59, the aboslute lowest you can go is 1.5 with a stock cam, biger cams is less,, what you can shim to will depend on what the final install'd heigth comes up to and what the cam lift is , so some befor and after measurements are need'd on each valve to make certain they have clearance , even brand new quest springs are not strong enougth and need a little help. idealy the use of the heavy duty springs is the best way to go as long as the install;d heigth is close to the 1.6" any shorter and the pressure gets too much shims are available in .015 .030 and .060 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie_Rich Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Regardless if it's early or late valves, the install height is the the same 1.6" The difference in height between the two valve styles is above the retainer. I wouldn'r go adding shims to my springs without checking the pressures first. If you are worried about your springs being too weak, buy new ones from Schneider for $40 shipped. PN 6610 Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang4thebuck Posted January 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 whoaaaaa, the height is indeed different! Measured with a micrometer both heads with valves and springs installed the difference was about .030 +or- .05. I measured from the bottom of the top retainers (where the spring touches it) to where the spring touches at the bottom (the bottom retainer that is on the heads) so what I did was got some shims (.070) .030 to make up the difference and .040 to add some pressure (Shelby recommends .060 to get eighty some pounds of installed pressure so I went a conservative .040) Ohh It does not bind either just so every one knows or was wondering! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie_Rich Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 I don't know what valves or heads you have, but I measured them both on my new Marnal head. I bought both styles of valves from Marnal and have both styles of retainers and keepers. They were both 1.6" on the button. Try measuring the two different valves in the same head and in the same hole to get an accurate comparison. If one head had a valve job, your install height will change. That is one reason for having to use shims in the first place. I assume you meant +or-.005". How did you measure the spring install height with a micrometer? Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang4thebuck Posted January 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 I dont know why these valves are different height but they definately are. You can set them side by side and see that they are, install them in the head same thing. It was a dial indicator i used(measures inside and outside dimensions to the thousandth of an inch) I know there is a name for this tool but i forget what it is.(I thought it was micrometer for some reason :-[.) There is no way around it I had to use these shims or I would float the valves way early.If I did not measure the two different valves I would have did alot of work just to take it all apart and do it again. I wish I knew the year caravan that I got the head from, I do know that it was an older one (older style square light front end) but everyone should definately measure b4 puttin anything together. Neither of these heads had valve jobs or anything either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie_Rich Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Dial Caliper. That's what I used too. I guess the difference is used vs new. You did have a difference in the retainer and keepers right? The early style keepers are thicker and have a square piece that fits the valve. The late model vales are thinner and have a round piece that fits the valve. With both setups, the keepers end up about flush with the retainer. Regardless of new or used, the spring install height should be checked when swapping parts around. I'm sure there are some things that were done that no one knows about. It's like they run out of a certain part and find something else to put in until the new inventory arrives. There's all kinds of stories like that. It's good to know that you don't have to worry about getting some special valve spring shim when you need them. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 the real problem come up when you have a reman head from some one like clear water or any of the other places,, they most certainly will not have quest valves in them nor quest springs, also the two engine have diff spring install height , for another thing the caravan spring has only 60 lbs at install height vers 74 for for new quest springs , useing valve spring shims is some thing that has been in use for many years and will cause no problems at all if proper clearances are maintain'd of course you need to measure the springs you have to get an idea of the lb pressure they have already at the install'd height and the lbs with the add'd shims , no one said to blindly start installing shims , and the use of other then a stock cam would greatly effect the ability to do this due to the higher lift now if you get a bare head and swap your valves and springs sure you know what you have the clear water head i did today only had 1.570 install'd height to start with , so while i am only useing a stock cam(and most likely never will go to a bigger one) i only went to .060 shims , of course if i ever go to a 284 cam i will have to replace the springs with new ones to prevent spring binding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang4thebuck Posted January 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 UPDATE UPDATE! I measures my installed height today it was 1.530 on the caravan head with the shims in place (.070) so it was 1.6 when I started. Now the disturbing news the quest head was 1.570 when I started, WHY ...... I dont know but it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 this a good reason for at least checking the install'd heigth,, with a 1.6 you will have no trouble with a heavy duty set of springs, but with a 1.570 you could come up with too much pressure and cam wear , remember the schnider springs are 100lb at 1.6 , i have even heard of guys that could not get more then 1.5 install'd heigth,, now thats realy pushing the limet on spring pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 there was a guy on ebay a few weeks ago when I saw this post the first time and he had about 200 boxes of old spring shims for like $20 but the shipping would have been really high on the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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