88TSI_Rob Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I hope you don't mind Kevin, but I thickened up the lines so they are easier to read. With the jpeg compression it was tough to make out the colors. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3622/3305322478_593177cd06_o.png Red - AUS Roller Cam w/ AUS Roller Rockers Black - Slipper Cam w/ AUS Roller Rockers Yellow - AUS Roller Cam w/ V6 Roller Rockers Teal - Slipper Cam w/ V6 Roller Rockers Great work so far! I'm interested to see how the baseline slipper cam w/ slipper rockers compares to the AUS roller cam and roller rockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRaider Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I hope you don't mind Kevin, but I thickened up the lines so they are easier to read. With the jpeg compression it was tough to make out the colors. Thanks, I hope to be able to test the slipper cam with slipper rockers next weekend. Way too many projects.... Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRaider Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I got the cam cleaned up and ready to go.... Long story but I ended up mixing concrete instead. Something about a cracked footing in the basement where the cast iron sewer pipe exits the house. Some home repairs need to get done sooner than later. Back on it this Friday. BTW I did find during the cam cleanup that it is an inverse radius profile, AKA it has a pear shape , not an egg shape. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Yes, and a true mechanical slipper cam should have a hump on the exit ramp to keep the clatter down. Our OEM mech cams do not have that hump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 a mechanical sliper cam has several of these humps as you call them some are to alow oil under the sliper , if you watch your dial indicator as you turn the cam you can spot them on the base before and after the lobe ramps , the hyd has one to fill the lifter a tad bit just before lifting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRaider Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) I put the roller cam into the Raider this afternoon. One lifter is noisy... I will have to take a look at that tomorrow. I did take a short test drive and the roller has better low end power. In OD at 50 mph and 2000 RPM the motor pulls smoother with more torque. Off idle is better as well. At idle you can hear a tiny bit of chain slap as the rollers cause the drive to load and un load depending what side of the cam flank they are on. Nothing really noticeable, just slightly different. No question there is less friction. At 3000 RPM the pull seems pretty good, once I get the valve lash adjuster fixed I will take it up a few more RPM's. Kevin Edited March 7, 2009 by TurboRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 you already sold me now if i can get done with this stinkin caravan after trany .....timeing chain but thats another story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I noticed all of the lifters in the AUS roller rockers looked a bit worse than the average lifter I've seen before. There is an "I" shaped mark on the valve end, and the rollers seemed a bit rougher looking. I'm not sure which rockers and lifters you used, but I wouldn't use the lifters from Australia that I've seen. Some added noise also comes from the rollers themselves. They will run a little noiser than the slip rocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRaider Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 http://kevincar1.home.comcast.net/rollertestv3.xls I added two tests. Slipper / slipper new is the same cam I tested the roller lifters with but with the slipper rockes it was designed for. This is a mechanical cam... Slipper / slipper old is the cam I was running in the car. Its a hydralic cam. Both show a lot more overlap. For my Turbo Raider the roller feels like a much better match. In a few weeks I will try the AU roller with the V6 rockers. I will neaten up the data next weekend and provide overlap figures. This is pretty much just raw cam profile data. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosigma2 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) I I'm not sure which rockers and lifters you used, but I wouldn't use the lifters from Australia that I've seen. . Just a bit of background. The 4g54 roller rockers were fitted to Australian built Magna's between 1992-1994. An average one would have 200,000 miles on the clock. Most heads and valve gear would be from stuffed Magna's. in wrecking yards. Chances are the components will be a little worse for wear. V6 rockers on the other hand were made from 1994 to 2007. Maybe able to still find new items, but items from wrecks would still have useful life left in them. Edited March 11, 2009 by turbosigma2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Just a bit of background. The 4g54 roller rockers were fitted to Australian built Magna's between 1992-1994. An average one would have 200,000 miles on the clock. Most heads and valve gear would be from stuffed Magna's. in wrecking yards. Chances are the components will be a little worse for wear. V6 rockers on the other hand were made from 1994 to 2007. Maybe able to still find new items, but items from wrecks would still have useful life left in them. Yes, I agree. I walk through salvage yards all over the country and the V6 Caravan's tend to have rockers in very good condition compared to the 2.6L Caravans (slippers). The oiling seems to be better on the V6. Except one head on a Caravan 2.6L that was recently replaced. Mike C. and I both knew it was a fresh head, so we pulled it for him. Sometimes you run into some really good finds. You just have to go take a walk once a month or so to find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRaider Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Just a bit of background. The 4g54 roller rockers were fitted to Australian built Magna's between 1992-1994. An average one would have 200,000 miles on the clock. Most heads and valve gear would be from stuffed Magna's. in wrecking yards. Chances are the components will be a little worse for wear. V6 rockers on the other hand were made from 1994 to 2007. Maybe able to still find new items, but items from wrecks would still have useful life left in them. Can that camshaft still be bought new? I would like to be able to set a few people up with them that run 4WD's So far I'm really happy with mine, its a perfect match for my Turbo Raider. My rockers were in decent shape.... The noise was my fault. Also if you look at the cam data is shows that the roller has as good an opeing rate as the slipper at the seat. I should be able to run the V6 rockers in a few weeks. I'm getting ready for a well deserved vacation. Kevin C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Sounds good Kevin! I hope to use it with the V6 rockers too. It will be a few weeks before I can get to putting it on a head and checking to make sure the valves will close all the way. I have a fairly new Marnal that I believe will close the valves just fine. The older the head (especially with valve jobs), the less chance of closing the valves because they sit deeper in the seat and preload the lifter more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosigma2 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Can that camshaft still be bought new? Kevin C M9 heads can still be had new, but it looks like the roller cams are almost non existant. Crow cams are the biggest supplier of standard and modified cams in Australia, and they do not have any. http://www.crowcams.com.au/media/catalogue...ni%20,Sigma.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRaider Posted March 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) M9 heads can still be had new, but it looks like the roller cams are almost non existant. Crow cams are the biggest supplier of standard and modified cams in Australia, and they do not have any. http://www.crowcams.com.au/media/catalogue...ni%20,Sigma.pdf I would not expect an aftermarket cam company to carry a OE stock replacment cam. What I was curious about is that still a good part # from the dealer and / or is it availible from aftermarket shops that specalize in standard repair parts. Basicly the AU equivilant of NAPA and Autozone in the US. Any idea what the factory PN is? Thanks, Kevin C Edited March 14, 2009 by TurboRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosigma2 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Not for Mitsubishi. Still a limited suplly of GM and Ford OEM parts. Biggest spares chain here is Repco. They have access to anything that's out there, but drew a blank on the Roller cam. One of the problems is that that particular motor had such a short production run. The previous motor had standard rockers with hydraulic lash adjusters, and the next model Magna had the 2.4 I have sent off a couple of emails, i'll keep you posted. Edited March 14, 2009 by turbosigma2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosigma2 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Tried the Magna forums and did no good. Pointless trying the local Starion forum as 99% of them use the 4g63. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 i bet theres more arround then one might think it's all in knowing where to look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRaider Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 i bet theres more arround then one might think it's all in knowing where to look Exactly... So far I'm very happy with the roller. For my motor this cam seems to be a perfect match, the stock cam had too much overlap for a turbo. The stock cam was designed to get max power from a small four with a passenger car RPM range and no turbo. On vacation next week... the next test will be the 1.6 rollers. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 be intersting to see what the rocker ratio change does to the cam , from the chart it looks like no changes will be made of any real diff untill it starts up the lobes,, then an increase in duration and slight increase in lift,, realy should be no down side effects at all to the 1.6 rockers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 be intersting to see what the rocker ratio change does to the cam , from the chart it looks like no changes will be made of any real diff untill it starts up the lobes,, then an increase in duration and slight increase in lift,, realy should be no down side effects at all to the 1.6 rockers I agree. There really can't be a downside unless the valves don't close all the way! I think they will, no problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Exactly... So far I'm very happy with the roller. For my motor this cam seems to be a perfect match, the stock cam had too much overlap for a turbo. The stock cam was designed to get max power from a small four with a passenger car RPM range and no turbo. On vacation next week... the next test will be the 1.6 rollers. Kevin Yep, I've been trying to tell people that for years, but they get their bottom end torque with the stock cam and that's all they want. They don't realize you get a much better average HP with a turbo style cam that has less overlap at least. Add a wider range up top too, and it's win win with a turbo cam, or at least characteristics that are more conducive to a turbo set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 only one small problem there Tim,,this is still not a turbo grind cam, not being a smart a** but i see nothing but positives from useing this roller cam on 90% of our cars , it may not be the super max hp cam some are looking for but by far more members are wanting an improve'd cam for their daily and i think this will be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Yes, I was careful to say 'a grind conducive to a turbo', etc... I was also trying to say a true turbo grind definitely has it's advantages. There are also cams that are ground for certain applications that make the engine not perform as well in an all around sense. People want low end torque and top end power and everything in between. A cam can't do that for you. That is accomplished with engine management, and even that has it's limitations. A stock cam isn't going to perform above 4800 or so. If you run it, you better plan on taking measures to hook up a lot of torque and measures to handle that torque without breaking because you need to start clearing ground at under 2000RPM or you will run out of RPM to work with on the straight sections in a road race, or the end of track in a drag race. Then you are talking about something other than a StarQuest when you are done building that car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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