VI_Quest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Has any one used a pfc-fcon on thier starquest? I bougth a car for xtra parts and it came with a fcon computer, i was wondering if my car will see a performance increase with this computer. I also saw a connection for a fcd, will this elliminate the fuel cut on the starquest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 pfc-fcon? what's the pfc stand for. isn;t FCON a fuel computer? if it is, i bet you would see gains by using it on your car. and if it is a real fuel cut defensor, you could rig it up to eliminate the cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VI_Quest Posted November 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 I think the pfc stands for programed fuel computer, its manfact. by hks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 I had one on an 86 and an 88. I played with several different setups, and when I finaly pulled it out I was running 19 PSI on a T-4 turbo, so they will support quite a lot of power with the right mods and some tinkering. I had oversized injectors to support this turbo, I was able to get a good cruise without being too rich with the F-con, without it I always ran too rich with these injectors. The FCD is only needed with an 86, the 87 you may as well upgrade to the 88/89's which don't have a fuel cut (or it's so high few ever see it). You can make the F-con work on any year 86-89 if you know how to move the pins (I did on mine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VI_Quest Posted November 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Thank you Chad for the info, will be installing the f-con soon; will keep you guys posted on what happens, wish me luck guys. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 i have had the same experience as chad. its basically the HKS version of the Apexi AFC but this actualy works on our car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questsi Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I'm running an F-Con on mine and it definetly makes a difference. When I had my 14G, I could run 20 psi with no problems. Now with my 18G, 15 psi seems like the limit, but with a bit more tuning and the FPR, I'm hoping to get it to 17-18 psi. My brother's car has an F-con and HKS AIC with a Super 60 and High boost sees 23 psi. You WILL notice a difference, I think those guys at HKS know what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 After looking at the $900 price tag, I would say... run away screaming, before you get ripped off. The AFC Does work on this car, and is much cheaper. I had one on my 85.5, and it worked fine. Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questsi Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Ripped off? Anyone who has or has had one knows its worth every penny. The AFC is just that, the CHEAPER version of an F-CON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 they used be half that price. i am sure they could be found much cheaper used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 What would the F-CON truely offer that makes it worth more? I don't think anyone will see the gains on this unit. Does it have an AIC builtin or something. As far as being "cheaper", if the feature set it similar, how much proof do you want. I can count the number of successful people in dsm-land with the F-con on less than one hand doing better than 12s. I don't have enough fingers to count the number of people with the S-AFC doing better than 12s. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean its worth the money. "The HKS PFC F-CON is a plug-in fuel management system designed to supplement and refine the OEM fuel curve in order to maintain a proper air / fuel mixture when increasing boost pressure in turbocharged applications. To achieve maximum safe power, the PFC F-CON optimizes the factory injector pulse width signal by recalibrating information obtained by both the PFC F-CON absolute pressure sensor and the OEM engine control unit (ECU). Each unit is application specific and includes a preprogrammed ROM for particular performance stage. A Fuel Cut Defencer (FCD) is also included in certain PFC F-CON kits to override the factory fuel cutoff. The PFC F-CON offers simplistic integration via a plug-in vehicle specific wiring harness and a compact pressure sensor. The PFC F-CON is programmed with an interchangeable ROM for each specific vehicle application. If additional tuning of the PFC F-CON is need, fine-tune adjustments can be performed via the plug-in HKS Graphic Control Computer (GCC)." Basically, What you get in the case of the starion is a programmable frequency generator. You plug this thing in, and using the chip you ordered with it, it "adjusts" the frequency that your airflow meter reports to the ECU. You have little adjustment possibilities unless you buy the GCC box to plug into device. Once you buy the GCC, you can plug in and adjust the frequencies to 'fake' the ECU into providing more or less fuel in that portion of the map. The F-CON alone is MSRP 1100.00 http://www.hksusa.com/products/more.asp?id=748 Then the GCC to adjust it is MRSP 590.00 http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=688 Guess what the AFC does? Same thing, without a chip. You do all the adjustments yourself, no GCC to buy, no "special chip" which does nothing as far as I can tell, aside from perhaps connecting it to the unit, and it attempting to run with additional fuel PW. The FCD portion is questionable on the 88+, as supposedly there isn't a fuel cut. I think 'fuel cut' is similar to that of a 1g DSM; MAS Overrun. You can only push so much through the stocker before it start losing counts. Thats when the stock ECU gets pissed, knocks your fuel off to make you stop. Enlarge the MAS, or hack the stocker, and the stock ECU won't know anything about fuel cut. So, seems to me, $1700 for a non-mpi fuel computer is pretty far out there. Way to much for a possibility of MAYBE tuning 50hp in with some added boost capabilities. I'm sure you could find a used EBAY unit somewhere But you can with the AFC as well. However, if you have this much money to your name, why not try for MPI? Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 I dont remember the GCC being compatible with a staroin. i know it was very tricking to tune on the DSMs. but from experince i can say that fcon works good and does richen the fuel mixture on a starion. we had several on the local guys years ago when they used to be around $3-400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 I got one for $75, they are not a rip off used, just if you get one new. I don't know how the AFC works, but as I understand it, it is modifying the MAS/AFS signal. I know from experiance the F-con uses input from the MAS, but modifies the injector signal, not the MAS signal to the ECU to get it's results. It takes the injector signal from your stock ECU, and add's to is as needed to support your mods. The ECU doesn't get tricked into a rich condition like mose MAS controllers work, rather it stays within it's OEM program and had the MAS signal altered slightly to keep the ECU happy. The 86 version comes with a FCD, but any boost mods on the 86 need that, even with an AFC due to the 86's unique boost sensor which is seperate from the AFS signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Fair enough. $75 wouldn't be as bad, as MSRP is way to much. Not sure I would still use the stock setup for any amount of excessive power, but who knows? I don't have experiances with them, so I can't say much there. Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Yah Joel, they are still at best not a solution to the stock ECU and it's problems. It's just the best "bandage" I've seen yet that is proven to work on the stock ECU. I finaly gave up on it when I couldn't get past 18 PSI on a T-4, but bear in mind thats more power than most would ever make anyway. I ran into several side effects which were unavoidable at these tuning levels, cold start problems, fuel cut etc. This was with well oversized injectors, DSM MAS, extensive fuel supply mods, intercooler/piping mods, full 3" exhaust/custom headder, and the full race-motor build internaly. It was probably 350+ HP, but it wasn't fully streetable to me. I now use the SDS EM-3F with 8 525 cc/min injectors Runs better with the same mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 I dunno why anyone would spend crazy money on any HKS ripoff crap. Wayyyy overpriced stuff is just ridiculous. Hate that fckn company! From sellin' FCDs for $200 (on other cars), that could be defeated with under $1.00 worth of resistors, left a sour taste in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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