Dcrasta Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Check out this site they sell complete units or Kits that allow u to replace the 02 sensor with a WB one and also interface it to the ECu (Narrow Band emulation/output) it also allows you to datalog your A/F ratio's (Even to a Palm OS device!) Sounds awesome! http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm I want one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 yeah, just the sensor price will piss ya off a bit. I won't be driving around with a wideband in the pipe all the time. Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcrasta Posted July 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 The bosch WB 02 sensor is about 100 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMitsu Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 good info. i would like to have one. its a bit pricy. but for what your getting,.you cant beat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.kodai Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 i don't think so: "The sensor reads the partial pressure of gases in the exhaust and infers the AFR, rather than by measuring some magical AFR directly. This may be an issue on forced induction, and in particular, on turbo-charged engines. AFRs will indicate richer than they are, causing you to run leaner than you think. Lean AFR's will be richer (or less lean) than indicted. " probably NOT a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFISIT Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 ...on that note, I got a little scared. The lamdbaboy.com wide-band that I just got weeks ago also uses the NTK L1H1 sensor. So I figured that I'd do some research. This note on another Wide-Band site made me feel a bit better. "The sensor responds to the partial pressure of oxygen. Excessive exhaust back pressure will affect sensor readings. This should not be a problem with any performance exhaust system. When used with a turbo, make sure the sensor is located downstream of the turbo." - from the page - http://www.daytona-twintec.com/tech_wego.html Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 i don't think so: "The sensor reads the partial pressure of gases in the exhaust and infers the AFR, rather than by measuring some magical AFR directly. This may be an issue on forced induction, and in particular, on turbo-charged engines. AFRs will indicate richer than they are, causing you to run leaner than you think. Lean AFR's will be richer (or less lean) than indicted. " probably NOT a good idea. There will be no problems running that WB OB unit. The system uses the new LSU4 style O2 which is a pump cell type. This type of design is the new style of WB O2 sensors. These sensors are stock issue for turbo Volvos, Porsches, VW's and many other newer cars. http://wbo2.com/lsu/default.htm The older style LH1 sensors where used for a particular Honda model. They will not be available readily soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMitsu Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 ...on that note, I got a little scared. Â The lamdbaboy.com wide-band that I just got weeks ago also uses the NTK L1H1 sensor. Â So I figured that I'd do some research. Â This note on another Wide-Band site made me feel a bit better. "The sensor responds to the partial pressure of oxygen. Excessive exhaust back pressure will affect sensor readings. This should not be a problem with any performance exhaust system. When used with a turbo, make sure the sensor is located downstream of the turbo." Â - from the page - http://www.daytona-twintec.com/tech_wego.html Josh do you already have it hooked up?/ an what do you think of it?? an hows the program to run it,. easy?? an are you using the palm. i have a freind that has one on his awd talon,. but his just pluged in to the existing comp,. an reads an inputs on the safc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFISIT Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 I'll be honest, I have only tried it for a few miles and didn't use any of the datalogging stuff. Â And I still haven't hard wired it in yet. Â I don't really need it until I gather the last few parts for my next stage of upgrades, but maybe I'll get it wired up this weekend. Â My new turbo just arrived today, so I might be distracted. The Bad: Â I don't really care for the DB9 connector used to connect the sensor to the box/display. I will probably replace it with something a bit more weather/stress proof. Â The display/control box is large. Â There's no way to integrate it into the interior for full time use. Â I'll probably start with it mounted on the inside of the glove box so it's only visible when it's open. (the display box really is pretty ugly) The Good: Â It works, and is accurate from what I can tell in the minimal testing that I've done. Â Price is the lowest that I found aside from building my own. Â It's got an analog output for, well whatever, I plan to tap into it for a multi channel (home made) data-logging unit and/or perhaps some sort of cockpit display, even if it's just a few LEDs. Â I figured as long as it has an analog ouput, I can have my way with the data it spews out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 The bosch WB 02 sensor is about 100 bucks. You better jump on that price!!! Around here (So California) Parts stores sell them for $699.00 or the local Honda dealership $499.00 ebay has them for $250.00 and www.fjoracing.com reps sell them for 199.00 if you buy their kit ( www.cyberauto.com ) but you may be thinking 4 band instead of 5 band. Rumors about the Honda dealerships not selling only if you have a vin# for the O2 part number 36531-PO7-003 I don't know why on the link from http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/wbntk.htm (this one) says the sensor is for non-California vehicles and say nothing about the vtec motor which the sensor is designed for. The reason Honda looked into the 5 band sensor was to be able to stay ahead of the emissions regulations . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 Here are some other links regarding information and other sources for this type of product http://www.picotech.com/data.html http://www.aces.edu/~gparmer/efi/temp/wb/guide.html here is a link to a move for the FJO O2 data logger and what they did to it to test its durability right click on the link and (save target as) it is in windows movie format http://www.fjoracing.com/downloads/WBO2%20test.wmv They use to be in the weapons development business but they dropped that side line (kinda scary) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 There will be no problems running that WB OB unit. The system uses the new LSU4 style O2 which is a pump cell type. This type of design is the new style of WB O2 sensors. These sensors are stock issue for turbo Volvos, Porsches, VW's and many other newer cars. http://wbo2.com/lsu/default.htm The older style LH1 sensors where used for a particular Honda model. They will not be available readily soon. In the link you refer to the 4 band sensor is not the sensor the after market data loggers are using and in that link states quote:(" A sensor in this list doesn't imply support for it with the WBo2 unit. ") The sensor being used is the 5 band sensor. Which are being horded and or very expensive to say the least. But are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 You better jump on that price!!! Around here (So California) Parts stores sell them for $699.00 or the local Honda dealership $499.00 ebay has them for $250.00 and  www.fjoracing.com  reps sell them for 199.00 if you buy their kit ( www.cyberauto.com )  but you may be thinking 4 band instead of 5 band. Rumors about the Honda dealerships not selling only if you have a vin# for the O2 part number 36531-PO7-003 I don't know why on the link from http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm  http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/wbntk.htm  (this one) says the sensor is for non-California vehicles and say nothing about the vtec motor which the sensor is designed for. The reason Honda looked into the 5 band sensor was to be able to stay ahead of the emissions regulations . The one on WBo2 site is an LSU4 wideband sensor. The expensive Honda sensors are the NTK L1H1 wideband. The LSU4 sensors are used on a variety of vehicles stock. In the future most WBo2's will be the LSU4 type so the L1H1 is going to be phased out on aftermarket A/F units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcrasta Posted July 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 I read that warning but I think any datalogging capacity for this car would be pretty cool so we wouldnt have to watch the gauges right away. I think this could also be useful because you can have a WB to monitor how accurate the regular A/F (ie: Autometer) gauges are. Anyway just some things to share.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 The one on WBo2 site is an LSU4 wideband sensor. The expensive Honda sensors are the NTK L1H1 wideband. The LSU4 sensors are used on a variety of vehicles stock. In the future most WBo2's will be the LSU4 type so the L1H1 is going to be phased out on aftermarket A/F units. Thanks for correcting me I thought that http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm was the home page and didn't read http://wbo2.com/default.htm I guess there are to be more updates/upgrades I would like to see comparisons between the two sensors 4band VS the 5band I know the 5band has a greater sampling rate but just how great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Tech Edge unit is a REAL nice unit. I think the quality of O2's is just going to get better with time as everything. Most of the current L1H1 are excellent WB A/F's but again the sensor is getting expensive and hard to source so the aftermarkets are swaying towards the "new" type of sensors. Either way WB are one kick tail tuning aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 I'm thinking the WBO2 and data logging would be a good matchup with a 1G GM MAS and the Ramchargers Translator instead of a AFC for fine tuning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcrasta Posted July 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 SOunds good to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_P Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 can you tell us exactly what cable (length) and parts you bought and if you would change any thing you ordered for a better install. Did you put your sensor in the stok location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFISIT Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 MetricMan, here's the info on lamdbaboy.com (Julian sells a unit with the NTK and a unit with the Bosch sensor.)  {  Sensor type:  5 wire NTK UEGO L1H1  Range:  8 to 25 AFR  Accuracy:  1% at 14.7 AFR, 2% full scale  Response: 0.1 seconds  Air Calibration: Yes } {  Sensor type:  5 wire Bosch  LSU4 wide band  Range:  10.5  to 25 AFR  Accuracy:  2% at 14.7 AFR, 2% full scale  Response: 0.2 seconds  Air Calibration: Yes } I'm going to guess that the response times quoted are based on the sampling rate available from the sensor, so it should be comparable for any units using these same sensors.  Julian said that if properly cared for, the NTK sensor should last 100,000 miles so I'm not considering the sensor replacement cost an issue. For datalogging, I'm planning to capture three primary values at first; MAP sensor, A/F ratio, and RPM. The only tricky one may be the RPM. For that I'll use either some sort of inductive pickup and a filter circuit or try to use the hall sensor signal once I get the magnets and pikup installed. My datalogger will just be a Basic Stamp 2 hooked to a laptop or PDA because that's what I have laying around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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