Quest Will Not Start

[4CFEDFDS]

Well i fixed it and now it fires up but runs real rough. I have to use a little throttle to get it to start. Sounds like it is missing but i have new plugs and wires. The timing is at 10 degrees BTDC set it just now and it does not run any better. Also when i hit the gas it does nothing. It struggles to keep it self going.

[Shelby]

after moveing the cam gear did you turn the engine over 2 turns back to TDC and recheck the cam timeing , and did you loosen or raise the rocker arm assy

[4CFEDFDS]

after moveing the cam gear did you turn the engine over 2 turns back to TDC and recheck the cam timeing , and did you loosen or raise the rocker arm assy

Yea i turned it over quite a few times to check and it was just before 12. I actually had to do this twice since the first time i took it off and put the cam gear on back wards boy did i fell stupid and mad at the same time. :character0056: I did not mess with the rocker arms but i did not bleed them like somebody said. What exactly do i need to do? I dont have the tool so what are my options? I was justy out side messing with the timing and it will run but still back fire like mad through the intake and exhaust.

Edited October 19, 2008 by 4CFEDFDS

[Dcrasta]

OK .

 

So the cam was off and thats fixed?

 

SO if the cam is right, next step is make sure the Distributor is stabbed correctly. I posted instructions.

 

Get that in the ballpark, then make sure the wiring order is right.

 

THen make sure the black injector is on the driver side, and is connected.

 

Make sure the mas is connected and all vacuum lines are connected or plugged.

 

What now?

[Technology]

What he said. I thought my cam was off a tooth once and it wasn't. Turned out to be a big waste of time. Hope that was your problem.

[4CFEDFDS]

Well the problem was mainly the cam gear being at 1 o clock instead of just before 12. Now it starts but back fires all the time. I did have the timing set right pointed at the 1 plug and at 10 BTDC but it still ran like crap and backfired so i am going to have the injectors sent out to be cleaned and wait for my intercooler piping(subsituted flex pipe lol). Probably dont help. I am going to get all of that straight then set the timing again and check for codes to see if my mas is ok. It was cold this weekend was suppose to change the fuel filter on my FD too but this conquest is taking up all my time.

[Dcrasta]

Ok.. You are on track. If your timing was 'so far' off you may want to 're-check' again to be sure its dialed in. All that backfiring usually means timing out of wack. You may also have hydraulic lifters pumped up (not too common tho). You can take (make) a pick tool from a paperclip or piece of stiff thin (1/16th) wire. Bleed off the oil in the lifters (should be a slight amount of play until they are fully pumped). If they are holding the valves open you may have a backfire condition, but usually backfires are timing related. But you are getting 'closer' .. Dont give up now..

[4CFEDFDS]

I pulled the vavle cover off and none of the rocker arms have play? good or bad? Also i get it to start and it seems like it is only firing on like 2 cylinders? Has a new cap and rotor the timing is set and new plugs and wires. Got it to run some what so i know it will start and then i unpluged to the mas to start it and it runs the same. Think it could be that? also it will not go above 1k even at full throttle. Going to see if i can pull codes from it. I got my intercooler piping and that is all good. Might send the injectors out next but dont think it would make it run like this.

[Edde]

So at TDC on crank your cam pin is at or before 12 AND your dist rotor points just slightly before #1 with the slot centered on the stud? Just trying to make sure.

 

 

Checked compression? Checked fuel pressure? Checked fuel flow? You can pull the fuel return line (simple clamp so as not to risk damage to the high pressure line O rings), place it in a bucket and run the pump via the terminal by the airbox. How long does it take to move a gallon of gas?

 

It can't hurt to see what codes are set.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Edde

[4CFEDFDS]

Well i checked the compression and it was like 100psi or a little more(had the valve to keep the pressure steady since that is the way to mesure the rotary) so that was good and all the cylinders were the same. But plugs 3 and 4 were badly fouled(pitch black and covered) out so i cleaned up my other set i had for when it was flooding out and now it will not start back up? I am going to set the timing yet again and try to get this thing going again. The last time i started it it sounded like it was running on 3 cylinders before i pulled the plugs and sounded somewhat decent and was idling around 1500rpm and would let me go to 2k and it would start backfiring. Getting so close. I just want it to run right. Edited October 26, 2008 by 4CFEDFDS

[INVUJerry]

Gotta get it running right so I can buy it later. I really really want this thing.

[4CFEDFDS]

Gotta get it running right so I can buy it later. I really really want this thing.

 

I am trying man. I am working 12-13 hour days during the week and like 8 on saturday. I am tired by the weekend so what little work that does get done goes into the quest. I really havent even been hanging out with my friends because i cant stay out late and tired.

 

I want to get it running and get a good base coat of paint or primer to make it look good and polish up the wheels.

[INVUJerry]

I totally understand. I've been working 12 hour days through the week, and family stuff on the weekends is holding me from the 98 neon that needs work. I can't really get the car until I have a spot to put it though. Gotta figure something out.

[4CFEDFDS]

I totally understand. I've been working 12 hour days through the week, and family stuff on the weekends is holding me from the 98 neon that needs work. I can't really get the car until I have a spot to put it though. Gotta figure something out.

I hope i can have this on the road soon. Hope this week i will grab the timing light from work again and re time it and hopefully it will run good enough to take it to work and fix the front right tie rod. And what ever else is wrong. Also have a guy picking up my 2nd gen rx7 and need to get my 3rd gen rx7 finished to get it ready to have the enigne rebuilt at PFS.

Edited October 28, 2008 by 4CFEDFDS

[Edde]

Unfortunately even a little thing can keep you far from running. Anyway to get another set of eyes on it? Can you post a quality pic or two of under your hood?

[Dcrasta]

Are you around during the day tuesday or wed? If so pm me I can come help you...

[4CFEDFDS]

Are you around during the day tuesday or wed? If so pm me I can come help you...

Man i wish i was. Only day off is sunday and saturday i work untill two. Thanks for the offer though.

[4CFEDFDS]

Well it still will not run right. I am going to try to buy a known good intake setup with injectors and all the sensors to elimate the injectors and crap. It is going to be from a 87. Think my issure my be due to me putting the 88 engine and intake in and pluging everything up that i could. I am hopeing the 87 intake will make it work. Then i will try setting the timing again. Edited November 10, 2008 by 4CFEDFDS

[Dcrasta]

Man you should have called I work starting tomorrow for 9 days in a row. Instead of swapping intakes etc, you can 'test' things . If you dont have a few ground connected correctly it wont work. But PM if u have any questions.

[Edde]

Man talk about frustrated. Wait till you put all that work into changing that stuff and there's no difference. Test, test, test... plus it's nearly impossible to swap an intake mani while the engines in the car.

[4CFEDFDS]

I think the injectors are leaking, it is a 88 intake in a 87 quest so a couple sensors dont plug up right, and need some thing that i know works. I am pretty sure it is not that bad to take the intake off in the car. I am a mechanic and those 6.0 ford tow truck engine bays make this look spacious. Same with my TT rx7 those twin turbos were fun to take out when i had all the emissions and was working in Feb. weather and gravel driveway with the turbos right agains the frame rail. It is still backing firing like mad and a guy has one that the TB was just rebuilt, and came off a perfectly good running 87. I am getting lazy now that i work on cars for a living and just dont have the time i use to to test every little thing(and i have no clue about this car) so if i have something that i know works i just elimated quite a bit. Only thing left will be the mas and timing. Edited November 13, 2008 by 4CFEDFDS

[4CFEDFDS]

And if anybody is free this sunday(weather permitting) i would really appreciate somebody coming by to check this thing out and help me get it going. I can pay someone to help me get this thing running and let me know what exactly is wrong with it. I am in annapolis right before the bay bridge. The compression was a little over 100psi on all cylinders, has oil pressure when it starts, has a real bad miss fire and back fires through the intake and exhaust real bad, and will not rev over 1500 rpm and does not really respond to throttle input. I have replaced the wires, cap and rotor, and plugs(2 Sets) NGK. Now the guy before me said he replace the fuel pump with a walbro 255(i think one of those ebay pumps) do you think that could cause it to miss like that and back fire? I really want to get that other intake to at least change the injectors to try that. Edited November 13, 2008 by 4CFEDFDS

[Edde]

I thnk the only sensor on the intake that matters is the CTS and they are the same. I think there is probably one diff but it wouldn't cause this. If I'm worng I'll get corrected.

 

The injectors are the same so you can swap them.

 

I'd be glad to check it out but I can't say I'll be able to carve out the time or not. Just bad timing but still possible. I lived in Annapolis for 11 years down Melvin Ave 4 blocks from the Naval Academy. I loved it. I'm just about an hour away now, maybe a little less.

 

If you're prepared to pull the intake you can if you have tools. But I'd like someone to disagree with me on this intake right about now.

 

100 psi isn't good really - bad timing maybe. (?)

Edited November 13, 2008 by Edde

[mikec]

The sensors on an 87 intake manifold are identical to 88-later setups. The wire harness connectors should match up perfectly on your 87. You will have one extra 2-prong one for the thermostat housing temp sensor (dash temp guage sensor). The 87 wiring harness has 2 different connectors for this sensor: a single-wire connector which matches the single-prong sensor installed on U.S. StarQuests, and a 2-wire connector that isn't plugged into anything. That connector probably fits the 2-prong temp sensor used on the 88-later cars. Again though this is for the dash temp guage only... it has NOTHING to do with the fuel or ignition systems.

 

100psi is low compression. 120 psi is typical for a mid-life StarQuest that's running decently. 110 psi is getting pretty low; idle will be lumpy but cruise RPM power should be fairly decent. 100psi though? I'd expect it to be a smoker and hard to start/idle.

 

Such low compression can come from: (for the rookies reading this thread)

* Worn piston rings allowing too much "leakage" or "blow-by" of the compression/combustion pressures.

* Leaking intake or exhaust valves. Or leaking "MCA Jet" valves.

* Incorrect crankshaft to camshaft timing from a jumped chain. This will cause lousy RPM running too...

* Leaking cyl head gasket. Though it'd be rare for a head gasket to be equally bad on all 4 cylinders; usually head and head gasket issues show up as lousy compression numbers on one cylinder or two adjacent cylinders.

* Bad compression guage or improper test technique.

 

From the symptoms described for this engine, I'd look at valve clearances being too tight (holding the valves open), leaking valves, and especially incorrect crankshaft to camshaft timing. Quick eyeball check: use a wrench to set the crankshaft pully to 0 deg BTDC (rookie translation: turn the crankshaft V-belt pully, clockwise only, so the timing mark on rear-most pully lip lines up with the "T" mark on the front of the engine). Remove the valve cover and look at the camshaft sprocket. Near the center is a small metal roll or shear pin - this pin ties the sprocket to the camshaft and to the stubby shaft that goes forward to drive the distributor. That pin will be slightly before 12 o'clock (as you face the sprocket from the front of the car) if the timing is correct. If it's near 6 o'clock, turn the crank pully 1 full turn and re-test. If the pin is after 12 o'clock, the timing chain is off at least one tooth on the crank or cam sprockets... it's easy to move 1 cam sprocket, it's much harder to move it one tooth on the crank pully. It could also be half or one full cam sprocket tooth ahead of 12 o'clock... which is also incorrect.

 

Some folks have swapped the two-wire connectors for the ECU coolant temp sensor (the one on the intake manifold near the oil dipstick, it has a squarish body and wiring harness connector shell) with the 2-wire connector for the dash temp sensor. This confuses the ECU. Having incorrect injectors, or having the wiring connector "clips" plugged into the wrong injector, will lead to horrible air:fuel ratios and lousy idle/running. On 87-later cars, you should be able to unplug the connector clip going to the green injector and still have the car start & idle perfectly if the connectors are plugged into the right injectors.

 

mike c.

[4CFEDFDS]

Well i did find the chain was off but fixed that a page or two back. I guess it is the same so i should just find a good set of injectors. It has a new head gasket, bearings, and all other gaskets. When i took the compression test the engine had not started ever yet and had alot of gas in the cylinder so think they may have been washed out. It was a good running engine and everything looked really good when i took it apart and had the crank turned and over sized bearings. It seems like it is running on 2 cylinders but compression is the same all around even if my gauge was off. I am going to try to time it again and see what happens.