Shelby Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 i'd say turn every thing off so it won't be interfering with your adjustments ,,then turn it on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltTSI Posted June 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Yeah, I wondered that also, about turning EGO off when messing with the VE table, I didn't but it would be interesting to see what would happen. My start up situation seems to be about like yours Zack, I really don't have room to complain, and I found the formula for figuring out cranking pulse at -40 and the 170, the hot and cold as we're calling it, it says to set the -40 to about 88% of your required fuel setting, and the 170 to 23% of your required fuel setting, the upper one that is, so I came up with some pretty different values doing this, I'm going to see what happens when I set them at the figured numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 i'd say turn every thing off so it won't be interfering with your adjustments ,,then turn it on i agre with you shelby turn it off and tune the map. once the car runs great with the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zactek Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Yeah, I wondered that also, about turning EGO off when messing with the VE table, I didn't but it would be interesting to see what would happen. My start up situation seems to be about like yours Zack, I really don't have room to complain, and I found the formula for figuring out cranking pulse at -40 and the 170, the hot and cold as we're calling it, it says to set the -40 to about 88% of your required fuel setting, and the 170 to 23% of your required fuel setting, the upper one that is, so I came up with some pretty different values doing this, I'm going to see what happens when I set them at the figured numbers. Yea, I've seen that formula a long time ago, and came up with some wayyyy different numbers, IDK if I can trust them, seem very low....... How do you turn off the EGO again? Set the controller step to 0 and ego correction to 0?? Is it safe to run the car with the accel AND ego off?? :confused0024: Thanks, Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltTSI Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I think it would be ok to run it with it off, in fact the better I get my VE table the lower I'm putting the EGO correction, you could either set it to not run at anything below 8000 RPM, or how about coolant temp activation 250? that would shut it down. Hey Zack, how was it that you were seeing where each Accel step was active? I thought I copied and pasted what you wrote into my "tune" file but it's not there, have you played with Accel time? that can really make a big difference I have found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zactek Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 (edited) I think it would be ok to run it with it off, in fact the better I get my VE table the lower I'm putting the EGO correction, you could either set it to not run at anything below 8000 RPM, or how about coolant temp activation 250? that would shut it down. Hey Zack, how was it that you were seeing where each Accel step was active? I thought I copied and pasted what you wrote into my "tune" file but it's not there, have you played with Accel time? that can really make a big difference I have found out. When you're driving with the laptop, look at the PW gauge, if you're driving at a steady rate, note the PW number. Then as you punch the gas, you should see it go up by an X amount. Note THAT number. So, if you're driving at 10PW, and then you see it jump to 20PW, the 10V Accel bin was active...... As far as "Accel time", it's how much fuel is going in, and the "Accel enrich" bins are how long the injectors stay open (in addition to the regular VE number) I've played with .3, .2, and .1 (where I have it now) At .3, your "Accel bins" should be very low, the lower you go with the "accel time" the higher your "accel enrich" should go. And Balt, what is "Tunning"?? You need to take out that extra "N", it's bothering the hell out of me :hmm3grin2orange: Zack Edited June 4, 2008 by zactek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltTSI Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Oh man! all this time with that stupid "tunning" up there and no one told me! I hate when I do something stupid like that, and much rather be told than to just let it slide, thanks for the heads up Ok, I'll have to take my 6 year old out in the car and watch that number if I feel like I can't watch and drive at the same time, and yeah. I have seen some good results with the timing and amount values in the Accel bins, I think I'm almost done with this thing! ...yeah right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zactek Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Oh man! all this time with that stupid "tunning" up there and no one told me! I hate when I do something stupid like that, and much rather be told than to just let it slide, thanks for the heads up Ok, I'll have to take my 6 year old out in the car and watch that number if I feel like I can't watch and drive at the same time, and yeah. I have seen some good results with the timing and amount values in the Accel bins, I think I'm almost done with this thing! ...yeah right Duuuuude!! I said just take out the "N", not add an "E"!! It's "tuning", not tuneing" (I AM THE spelling NAZI :hmm3grin2orange: ) I'm gonna attempt to tune my VE with the accel and EGO off on Thurs. Hope it runs with no accel :confused0024: I don't want it coughing while I'm datalogging..........I'm still not sure if I should leave the "EGO step" at 1 and "Ignition ev. per step" at 64.......OR try something different :confused0024: Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltTSI Posted June 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Oh man I'm losing it! ok, all fixed Mine did run fine with the Accels. off, you just can't stomp on it, and I'm running EGO step at 1 right now with a 64, as long as your VE table isn't really bad I think you will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 (edited) i dont know if this helps at all. i hope it does. The ignition events per step is a way of slowing and smoothing the EGO response, so that it doesn't react too fast, potentially getting into an oscillating loop. The step size is the same idea, larger steps react more quickly, however, larger steps also may not hit the exact ratio you need. in this link you will find all sorts of info on ignition events. Ignition Events just do a find for "ignition events" it is all through out. maybe this might give you a little more info on what you need to know. Ignition Events Per Step (narrow band sensor only) This value determines the rate at which the closed loop algorithm applies correction. The default value of 32, when used on a four cylinder engine with four ignition events per cycle, tells MS to wait for 8 cycles before changing the current correction factor. - Ignition Events per Step: set this to a value that would switch about 4x a second at your average cruising speed. 4 cylinder assume 3500rpm cruise set Ignition Events per Step to : 29 6 cylinder assume 2500rpm cruise set Ignition Events per Step to : 31 8 cylinder assume 2000rpm cruise set Ignition Events per Step to : 33 You can calculate your: O2 adjustments per second = ((rpm/120) * cylinders) / ignition events per step If you are using a wideband lambda sensor then youll need to tell MegaTune it is connected, to do this use the MS1 Extra Megatune installer, you can select either a LC-1 or Techedge wideband during the install, but if your using another type of sensor or you didn't use the MS1_Extra Megatune installer then you'll need to use the Configurator within MegaTune. To do this run MegaTune and select: Edited June 4, 2008 by importwarrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltTSI Posted June 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Hey Warrior, any help is good help! thanks, I'm really into ready anything new I can find on this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zactek Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Thanks IW, I read that a while ago, it's just that I saw other members having 32,64, and 72 Ignition events per step, and was curious what was the best for tuning.......after I'm done with the VE and Accel, I'm probably gonna leave it at 64. So to turn off Accel, put the "TPS threshold" around 30V, and to turn off EGO put "EGO active above" RPM around 8000. Also, when I'm done, I might put the TPS threshold a little lower than .977, like .70; I got a little dead spot between 1100 and 1500 RPM, so lowering the threshold closer to idle might activate the "Accel enrich." bins a little sooner than 1500 RPM. Just an idea....... :confused0024: Zack Edited June 5, 2008 by zactek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 from what i have read... the higher the rpm the higher the ignition events. if your ignition events are too high the 02 reading might have trouble giving you a good reading. you might need to adjust the Ignition Events a little. i just wish i could find the statement above in the manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltTSI Posted June 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 That should do it Zack, I'm not doing much more to mine until I get the AC working again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zactek Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) from what i have read... the higher the rpm the higher the ignition events. if your ignition events are too high the 02 reading might have trouble giving you a good reading. you might need to adjust the Ignition Events a little. i just wish i could find the statement above in the manual. Yea, I might use the 64 "Ignition events per step" when I'm tuning the VE above 3500 Rpm. After the VE is tuned well, I might leave the IGN.Events at 32..... Then, adjust the "Accel enrichments" one by one. Balt, can you post your enrichments page ? I'm curious to see what neighborhood you have your "accel time" and "Accel enrich" bins atright now..... :thumbsup: Thanks, Zack Edited June 5, 2008 by zactek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltTSI Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) Here ya go, this is by no means my final wrap it up runs as good as an 08 Rolls Royce I'm done Values, I just ran the car with these and haven't even analyzed my datalogs yet, but it's not bad, notice how high I have the accel time at? I think to smooth out the peaks and dips I needed more time but less fuel, so I tried a 0.5. One more thing...don't you have this backwards? "As far as "Accel time", it's how much fuel is going in, and the "Accel enrich" bins are how long the injectors stay open" And did you know changing the TPS Dot threshold to .970 won't work? I don't know why but it reverts right back to .977 when I have tried it. http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z115/RL4406/Enrich6-5-08.png Edited June 6, 2008 by BaltTSI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltTSI Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Oh! I just found something else related to what you were telling me about the Accel bins, you said you can watch the PW gauge, you said... "So, if you're driving at 10PW, and then you see it jump to 20PW, the 10V Accel bin was active......" first of all I don't see a 10V bin, mine go 2 4 8 and 15, as you can see in the picture above. But what I just looked for and found in the datalogs is the PW gauge reading at all times, it's right there on the bottom, well you can also make it a graph too. But what I see for example is I'm cruising along and it's at 3.2, I then hit it and it goes to 12.3, is this what your talking about? what bin would this fall under? 8 or 15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zactek Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Oh! I just found something else related to what you were telling me about the Accel bins, you said you can watch the PW gauge, you said... "So, if you're driving at 10PW, and then you see it jump to 20PW, the 10V Accel bin was active......" first of all I don't see a 10V bin, mine go 2 4 8 and 15, as you can see in the picture above. But what I just looked for and found in the datalogs is the PW gauge reading at all times, it's right there on the bottom, well you can also make it a graph too. But what I see for example is I'm cruising along and it's at 3.2, I then hit it and it goes to 12.3, is this what your talking about? what bin would this fall under? 8 or 15? I just said it as an example, I know there's no 10V bin :hmm3grin2orange: Ok, as far as the example above. Say you're at 3.2 and then it jumps to 12.3......12.3 - 3.2 = 9.1(Ms) So, you look where the Accel bin that's 9.1Ms corresponds to...... According to your latest "Enrichments" page that would be the 15V bin You've got quite different settings from the last time I saw them. Wow, your cold/hot cranking PW settings are wayyyy lower than mine, along with afterstart and CAE. Just out of curiosity, where is your PW at idle? Your "Accel time" settings are also very high, they go against everything I have read, but hey, if it works........ And I did know about changing the TPS threshold, it just rounds it off to nearest .030 :hmm3grin2orange: I ran a datalog yesterday with EGO and AE off...........I'm pretty damn close on the VE, except at some high KPA numbers and decel....... Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltTSI Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I'm not following you on some numbers, how are you corresponding the 9.1 to the 15V bin? I'm missing something And remember I told you I found the formula to calculate the hot/cold cranking values? thats where I got those, they seem to be ok for now, after start and CAE could be higher though I think, can you post your settings? My PW at idle is 3.3, does that sound normal? Is your's still going rich when you let off it? I'm still seeing that myself, although it does recover very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zactek Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 (edited) I'm not following you on some numbers, how are you corresponding the 9.1 to the 15V bin? I'm missing something And remember I told you I found the formula to calculate the hot/cold cranking values? thats where I got those, they seem to be ok for now, after start and CAE could be higher though I think, can you post your settings? My PW at idle is 3.3, does that sound normal? Is your's still going rich when you let off it? I'm still seeing that myself, although it does recover very fast. I know exactly which formula you're using for the hot/cold cranking PW's :hmm3grin2orange: In order to come up with the numbers, you have to know your idle PW, that's why I asked you about yours. You came up with around 1.62 for hot and 7.56 for cold, right??? Yes, my idle PW moves between 3.2 and 3.5, yours sounds about right. You haven't had ANY problems with cold or hot starts? I was too afraid to put them that low......mine are at 3.5 hot and 16.2 cold :confused0024: NOW, the Accel..........if you're driving at 3.2 and then it jumps to 12.3, that's a difference of 9.1. Since your biggest accel number is 7, it also happens to be at the 15V bin. Soooo, that's the bin that was active. It couldn't have been the 2V bin, because you didn't jump to 5.2 Ms.......(3.2+2=5.2) Are you getting it? Oh, and I AM still rich on decel............ Zack Edited June 7, 2008 by zactek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltTSI Posted June 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 Ok I gotcha on the Accel figures, now maybe I can tune them a lot better, thanks. So what do you think? is going rich when you let off the gas just a normal thing? we need to hear from someone else on this also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zactek Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Ok I gotcha on the Accel figures, now maybe I can tune them a lot better, thanks. So what do you think? is going rich when you let off the gas just a normal thing? we need to hear from someone else on this also I'm glad you finally got the Accel........... I'm not sure if going rich on decel is normal, should at least be in the stoich if the decel is at 25-35 range, that's a lot less fuel that's supposed to be going in..... MAYBE it has something to do with our BOV's opening (the throttle plate DOES close shut and changes the vacuum readings), maybe the MAP sensor sees that and reacts.......I dunno. :confused0024: Can you answer me on your hot/cold start-ups with the new lower cranking PW's? ^^ I might try that........ We seem to be the only ones actually talking about this, all the GURUS, WHERE ARE UUU?!?? Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 you guys have gone past me on the experience. im just waiting till i can get my car running again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltTSI Posted June 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Oh sorry about that Zack, no, I don't have any trouble with those low hot/cold settings, it didn't seem to make much difference actually, I did raise the priming pulse when I changed them though, maybe that helps? And that's a good theory about the BOV, maybe I'll take the vac. hose off mine next time and see what it does with the BOV disabled. And yeah, where are the gurus on this subject? or like IW says, we have passed everyone in experience and we are the only gurus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zactek Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Oh sorry about that Zack, no, I don't have any trouble with those low hot/cold settings, it didn't seem to make much difference actually, I did raise the priming pulse when I changed them though, maybe that helps? And that's a good theory about the BOV, maybe I'll take the vac. hose off mine next time and see what it does with the BOV disabled. And yeah, where are the gurus on this subject? or like IW says, we have passed everyone in experience and we are the only gurus? Passed IW on experience? Is that possible? I think he's bluffing, he knows something and just holding back on the info we NEED Is IT possible that somehow the Accel enrich. values affect Decel?? I notice that as soon as you let go of the pedal after accelarating, it goes straight from accel to decel....... :confused0024: I'm gonna play with the hot/cold PW's, because if yours works, there's no need for me to be dumping extra fuel into the cylinders during cranking. In fact, I'd like to run as lean as possible everywhere before my engine blows, that's how I spun a main bearing last time, running way too rich... Ok, back to the laptop for more tuning.............. :hmm3grin2orange: Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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