Need help, no spark.

[88TSI_Rob]

Here's the rundown. I'm using a Hawk ECU and I'm using it to control the ignition (with a Magna distributor and GM HEI ignitor). The Hawk appears to be working perfectly, all the sensors are reading normal and the injectors are firing. On the ignition side I'm not getting any spark. I traced the problem back to the coil. I put a spark plug on the end of the coil wire and I'm not getting anything, no spark. I suck at troubleshooting ignition issues so I need all the help I can get. If anyone sees anything out of place or has any suggestions on what to test, I'm all ears.

 

Here is a diagram of exactly how I wired all this up:

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAzMjk5NTZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg

 

 

 

Here is what I know:

 

The coil is getting +12V

The coil worked the last time the car ran

The Hawk ECU appears to be working

The GM HEI ignitor came from a junkyard and I don't know how to test if it works.

 

Here's what I'm working from:

 

The Hawk wiring diagram:

 

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAzMjk5NDZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg

 

Shelby's wiring diagram:

 

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAzMjk5MzZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg

 

 

Here's what Chip had to say on wiring the ignition:

 

Get a Bosch ignitor module PN 9222067024 This is the one the Hawk manufacture always uses, however just about any Bosch module will work. If you find one that looks anything like this get the number off of it and call efi hardware they'll be able to get you the wiring diagram for just about any bosch ignitor, and they're happy to do it.

Pin 16--------------(-coil wire)

Pin 15--------------(+coil wire)

Pin 7---------------(ignition output from Hawk)

Pin 3---------------(ignition ground)

*NOTE* this assumes the coil has a power supply. This module takes it's power from the hawk.

[Boosted_One]

I'd swap out another igntion module and try it out.

 

Is your tach bouncing a little when you pop it over?

 

Your not using any sort of CD ignition are you?

[88TSI_Rob]

No tach signal at all and no it's just a standard inductive-discharge type ignition.

 

I was under the impression that these GM ignitors were pretty much bulletproof but I'll see if I can find a new one locally.

[Boosted_One]

Hows your pickup coil?

[88TSI_Rob]

The magna distributor uses a hall effect sensor, so I don't think there is a pickup coil.

 

I just replaced the ignitor with a new one and that didn't help. I also checked the resistance across the coil terminals and they are both within specs according to the manual.

 

I read through a topic that Chip posted about the issues he had with his distributor.

http://www.starquestclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2154

 

Unlike him, I'm getting an rpm signal on the digital dash on the laptop and, from looking at the spark plugs, fuel is getting into the engine.

 

But still nothing from the coil...

[DanMitsu]

If your seeing a value of rpms in the window while cranking, that mean's its getting power correct? Because the its off of the negative side. Not to sound stupid, but do you have the modual backwords? all connections are sound? nothing loose. Check the polarity of the wires, make sure they are coming in on both sides, nothing has stoped it (say bad crimp)?/ maybe.

 

From my understanding of looking at,.G and C seem to be making a connection, your 12volt switch. Is it 12volt when you crank it? I do not have one, of these Hawk. Sds we have two, one 12v for the injecters and one for the coil. Just some ideas. Maybe it will help.

 

Didnt you have the Tec2, and eip intake? Sometimes its the easy s*** we over look.

[88TSI_Rob]

I've checked the continuity of all the wiring about 5 times, everything is making a good connection. I've had a test light on the 12V source this whole time and it's on when the key is in the run position and while cranking.

 

Stuck a brand new MSD coil on it today, and still nothing.

 

I found something in the ecu file Shelby sent me, he had it set for a CDI ignition. The output from the hawk was a constant +5V. I set it up for inductive ignitions and the output changed to a pulsing +1V to 0V...still nothing.

 

I guess I need to find out what the EFI Hardware guys have to say.

[Shelby]

looking at your w-g terminal wireing your back wards and you do not ground the modual body to the terminal it is ground'd thru the mounting screw to the heat sink

and you have W as a red wire,, G is the red wire terminal , and W the blk,,wire this is not a ground to the heat sink, it's the system ground in the harness to the dist , in the diagram they show it going to ground cause it does eventualy,, but your post'd diagram is for a 2 driver ecu,, is that what you have or do you have the 4 driver ecu , if the 2 driver ecu you need to put ign out put A5 on the "G" terminal of the modual

and the blk wire on the " W" terminal , this blk wire is one of the bundle of blk wires you had to run to each component that use'd a sensor ground what is connect'd to that blk wire is the shield wire from the other shield'd red wire

now when useing the magna dist you use A1 and not A2 , and add the resistor ,,now some diff's are shown in the dist connecting plug,,as to color,,thats why i made the pic useing location not color to go by

 

sence your dash is showing a tach signal i beleave you have the pick up wire'd right and the problem is in the modual wireing ,,your being on the wrong terminal with the trigger signal A5

[conquestpa]

Make sure the body of the GM module is grounded!!!!!!!

 

Also, if its a old stock coild consider going to the auto parts store and getting a nice new accell chrome performance coil for about $30....

[Boosted_One]

Why do you have to use ignition modules for any aftermarket ECU?

 

I'm just curious as SDS does not do that for any system??

[DanMitsu]

Because the system is cheaper...... (i dont know im being a smart a**)

[jr_ss]

Why do you have to use ignition modules for any aftermarket ECU?

 

I'm just curious as SDS does not do that for any system??

 

Think of the Hawk as a GM V8(LT1 and so on) ignition system. In the GM distributor they have HEI ignition modules. I'm not sure why Hawk decided to go this route, but it does work pretty damn good. The Hawk sends the signal to the module which then sends voltage pluses to the coil, just as it would in a GM. I'm not sure how the SDS fires voltage to the coil, but I'm sure it's on the same basis as this...

[88TSI_Rob]

Success!

 

Here's the update. As Dan and Shelby pointed out, the picture I drew up there is wrong. I had it wired correctly, I just drew it wrong.

 

Shelby set me straight that I had it set the ECU to read the dist. as a reluctor (as Chip said it should!!!) instead of a Hall effect sensor. I had some initial issues with that, but I think I just didn't seat the pin in the ECU connector all the way. Now I'm getting spark.

 

I ran out of time tonight, but it should fire tomorrow once I reset the engine to TDC and get the dist. all set again.

 

 

And to answer Mike's question. I think the main reason for the ignition module is it's a transitor. The signal coming from the Hawk is very low amperage, the ignition module boosts the current of the signal before it get's to the coil.

[Boosted_One]

Why do you have to use ignition modules for any aftermarket ECU?

 

I'm just curious as SDS does not do that for any system??

 

Think of the Hawk as a GM V8(LT1 and so on) ignition system. In the GM distributor they have HEI ignition modules. I'm not sure why Hawk decided to go this route, but it does work pretty damn good. The Hawk sends the signal to the module which then sends voltage pluses to the coil, just as it would in a GM. I'm not sure how the SDS fires voltage to the coil, but I'm sure it's on the same basis as this...

 

Ahh I got it.

 

The way the SDS 4E works is it uses the stock ditributor, minus all the advance weights. The only thing the distriutor does is spin spark. No electrical wiring to it other than the plug and coil wires.

 

SDS 4E uses a "hall effect" sensor and 2 magnets. So the hall sensor picks up the engine rotation and fires the MSD box.

 

So the hall magnets and sensor are basically doing what your ignition modules are doing...well sort of....

[DanMitsu]

Success!

 

Here's the update. As Dan and Shelby pointed out, the picture I drew up there is wrong. I had it wired correctly, I just drew it wrong.

 

Shelby set me straight that I had it set the ECU to read the dist. as a reluctor (as Chip said it should!!!) instead of a Hall effect sensor. I had some initial issues with that, but I think I just didn't seat the pin in the ECU connector all the way. Now I'm getting spark.

 

I ran out of time tonight, but it should fire tomorrow once I reset the engine to TDC and get the dist. all set again.

 

 

And to answer Mike's question. I think the main reason for the ignition module is it's a transitor. The signal coming from the Hawk is very low amperage, the ignition module boosts the current of the signal before it get's to the coil.

 

Congrats. Glad its working for you.

[jr_ss]

Man, I bet you are one happy dude right now. I was so stoked after I fired mine up for the first time. I couldn't stop grinning. You'll be even happier after you drive it. It's a night and day difference Rob, you wont recognize her when you do take her for a spin that's for sure...

 

Take it easy and don't rush the tuning, get it right. You have any questions, feel free to ask any one of us that are using the Hawk, there are quite a few out there now..

 

Glenn