Siance Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 So the cams for the head will be totaly custom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnfjamerson Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 yes, fraid so. the stock cames dont have enough lobes, and the main journals are just way to big. no other car has a bore center to center like this. close but not close enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie_Rich Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Great idea to use existing parts. As long as there is adjustibility, it will be succesful. Good luck.I really hope it all comes together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnfjamerson Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 A big thanks to kev_rm for the shortblock. It will help greatly!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YELLOWHELL Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Hey John I just wanted to mention you might want to look at the Mazda FE3 dohc 2liter the cylinder spacing is Very close I mean Verrry close. The cams might be workable. They are the engines in the new Kia sportage from 97-up Less than a 1/4 inch off overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnfjamerson Posted August 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Im working with a late 70's mercedes timing setup right now, trying this and that. still working on alot of stuff.... I think Chad lost the matching valve cover... i need that . ummm and oh yeah, Sakura is getting detailed specs and tons of pics of the only other complete head (that i know of) in the world. I offered to buy or even 'rent' the head but they said no. so i am also waiting patiently for the free pictures. I would fly there my self and get some but id have to conect two flights and stay in the air for like 15 hours each way and id get there just in time for them to close. ...... bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremeboost Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Like all you guys I am waiting to see what becomes of this . I did have a talk over the phone with jamerson about this and I did also taked to Chad about it as well some time ago . Doing something like this is not all cheap and it does take time . I do have acces to having custom cam gears done and acces to having ANYTHING casted !!!! I did have an owner of an overseas company I deal with come over to the states about a year ago and we talked about doing this - he laughed and said this would be so easy for his company to do( its ALL they do !!!! ) . With that in mind I once again offer to help out with this in anyway I can . When we talked John said that all he was working on was gear set-up which I also would find to be where the times at . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 i have a suggestion on timing components, reusing the chain drivin timing design would seem to work best - being that if you cut the cams to the same general length as the stock single and if there was no clearance issues. You could use two stock timing gears , a longer timing chain and reuse the teflon guides and hyrdaulic adjuster for cheaper parts and simplicity. THE NEW HONDA K-SERIES MOTORS USE THE EXACT SAME TIMING SETUP AS THE G54B EXCEPT THAT THEY ARE DUAL CAM ENGINES. If needed you may actually be able use the honda componets for the k- series- except for the varible valve timing adjuster built into the cam gears. I've had those motors to 10k revs when built and balanced - so the chain setup can be very reliable. I hope to possibly invest in the future- couple of months - to help speed up this process - i look forward to seeing how much power can come from this new head design. Andy Jespersen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzone Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Sound like a well thought out idea.(The Honda one)I really don't think it would be that difficult to just copy or make an inside mold of the hks head,The existing one that he has and change the outside.Also Mercedes last generation SLK AmG had a modifide 2.6ltr inline rwd version.Could any of that head work?I could imagine the price though.Just throughing ideas.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnfjamerson Posted August 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 A honda with a chain?! Never thought it would happen. But i guess it makes sence, seeing as they are tring to extend the service life of their motors... I will head down to Honda tomorrow on my lunch break and take a look at what they have apart. As for using two stock gears... That ws the original idea, however, the two gears are rediculously big. The HKS head is not wide enough to fit them both. It could work, but im not sure that Chad would appriciate me cutting and welding on his head. Also, the space where the chain is fed up to the head is more forward than the stock gear. It is inline with the balance shaft chain instead of the normal cam chain on the sohc g54's. One possibility we are looking into as having a 'transmission' adapter plate that would bolt to the front of the block under the front cover that steps down the gear ratio so that smaller pullys may be used. For example: a stock crank timing gear in its normal position drives a shortened belt up to the transfer plate. This plate has a single shaft with a stock cam gear drivin by the afore mentioned chain. (This provides the step down requiered for the cam) The other end of the shaft, in line with the hole on the HKS uses one sproket driving a chain that goes to both cam gears. In this type of setup, all three gears can be exactly the same diameter since the step down was already accomplished at the 'transmission' plate. That means you can use sprockets the size of the stock crank sproket if you wanted to. You see a little about why this is taking so long. Belleive me when i say i wish (and i thought in the beginning) that it would not nearly take this long. But when i am going the cheap route and trying to save money by thoroughly investigating and ruling out different posibilitys. Want more info... Keep in mind this is only to get the HKS in my possetion to work on one car. Stock gears on HKS head: PROs-cheap gears-cheap chain-easy to intall?-stock disributor drive CONs-spacing incorrect (depth on drive is in balnce shaft position)-would requier a spacer bushing and ballance shaft elimination-no drive for oil pump unless routed with cams-HKS head is not wide enough to fit gears-cutting requiered Custom gears on HKS head: PROs-cheap chain-easy to install-no modification to HKS head-can work with stock distributor drive CONs-same problem with spacing as above-COST $$$, three totaly custom cut gears from sctratch=$1000 bucks-possible problem with gears such as workmanship or fit=second set of gears @ $1000 bucks Other OEM gears on HKS head: PROs-moderatly cheap chain-moderatly cheap gears-easy to source gears-no or little modification to HKS head CONs-Same spacing problem as above-may not work with stock distributor drive-best guess on which parts fit (trial and error)-takes time to explore different options such as manufacturer and engine series Transmission assembly: PROs-cheap chains (bottom and top)-cheap bottom end gears (stock)-fixes spacing problem-no modification to HKS head-use standard gears for top end (like SB chev crank gears [$7.65ea]) CONs-extra custom parts-heavier driving assembly-more noise (two chains)-costlier As you can see i think about everything. I look at everything, and i play with everything. I havent stoped with this, and i appriciate that everyone is now just talking instead of accusing as before. I cant just make any of you change your mind, but at least it seems that [some] of you are being more open to the idea. Again, thank you. As for pictures, If you wan some, I can take some closeups of the head on a block. as for parts, there are none to take pictures of since the one i had fabricated (or started to fabricate anyway... it was a chain guide) will not work at all. Some work was done earlier this year on some adapters, but the same was realized when the spacing was off. Untill I narow down and eliminate all posibillities except for one, no machine work will restart. Ill get into my personal life a bit so you can see what time i do actualy have for this. I work 45-50 hours a week managing a car parts store. I have a 7 month old boy and i am getting married in 5 weeks. I care for my girlfreinds car when it breaks as well as two of my sisters and my parents two cars. When i am lucky i get two full days off a week to spend with my family. Some weeks both days go to this project, and some weeks i dont have any time at all. I am sure everyone realizes that I am a lot cheaper than a shop trying to research what may work best. every once in a while I will go and ask them what they think of this or that, and when i have a new idea i go and buy them lunch and talk it over with them. Also dont forget that i have a guy in porte rico that is getitng detailed measurments and pictures of a working assembly. I thought they were gonna be a little sooner but I am not impatient. I wait eagerly however. Again thank you for your support and ideas (esspesialy that honda one) I check them all out as they come about, and i have the time. Have a good weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 I for one want to give John the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this DOHC head because by the remote chance that he does pioneer this and comes through.. I would hate to think I was the guy that smeared his name and this project...besides I would buy one if it was ready to bolt on even if it was a DOHC head borrowed from another vehicle.. but for realities sake I remember when John started his thread for the DOHC head and posted pictures on his website of Chad's HKS head. Unknown to some at the time John did not own one of the HKS heads...and they were just pictures borrowed from Chad. John eventually raised the money for the initial design reviews and then looked hard for Chad. I don't think if I were Chad I would let some one borrow a piece of history just out of a promise...at one time Chad was asking $7000.00 for the complete engine w/ the DOHC head. Most of this info has been lost (deleted) when the site switched over to the new format to stream line and smooth out the thread.Even a post of a legitimate question posed to John regarding the use of the DOHC as it was designed by HKS BELCO Mitsubishi w/ forced induction.but John was being henpecked at the time by other members. It would be nice to have a DOHC for our cars... but that's about the extent of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman1000R Posted September 10, 2005 Report Share Posted September 10, 2005 Chad if you have the HKS DOHC head then give us all an opportunity to have it reproduced. Lets not reinvent the head just keep it the same. It seemed to work for HKS. I too have tried to contact Mr Wooley about buying the head only to find out he no longer had it. I have money and would be interested in having the head reproduced. The only thing I would be remotly interested in changing would be the combustion chamber if it did not use the latest fast burn technology. Chad you mentioned you the ability to have the head made. Give everyone an idea what we are looking at to have this done. Thanks for your help and honesty. Rocketman1000RHouston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnfjamerson Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Good Evening All. I can now explain what is going to happen next and why it must happen. First off, please note that the cam chain rides closer to the block. becasue of this, this HKS head will not directly bolt together. As with the Sakura head. An adapter will be used. This adapter will transfer the load of the timing chain from the crank to the cams. The step down will be done from the crank to the adapter (or intermediate --- such as a VR6 Volkswagon) and then a smaller gog will drive the cams, with identical gogs on them. Please see ilistration and pictures.http://www.geocities.com/johnfjamerson/block2.JPGTop View of Headhttp://www.geocities.com/johnfjamerson/block3.JPGFrom Underniethhttp://www.geocities.com/johnfjamerson/block4.jpgFronthttp://www.geocities.com/johnfjamerson/BLOCK5.jpg The installation of this will REQUIER the use of a ballance shaft elimination kit, and the removal of the upper ballance shaft. Another benifit is the increase of oil flow that will now reach the larger head.The adapter will be made of steel with a steel shaft, and likewise steel gears. It will also requier machining of the front cover so that a support fom both sides of the shaft will be there. Similar to the idler shafts that will be used in the head. It will bolted to the block into existing holes that will be vaccant do to the absence of the stock guides. (Labled "A-F") This will be done on a core basis. I am working on a modle made of Bondo (yeah, dont laugh .... its cheaper than metal, easier to work with than metal and wood, and if i mess up, i can just add more a little at a time) meassurements can be taken off the piece and manufactured. Hope this will tide peple over for a wee bit. PS: Very sorry to hear that Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 100 heads though? :? I can't remember when ANY product in this GP section sold that many units, let alone a full DOHC head.. It'd be awesome though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnfjamerson Posted November 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Lets Recap. The HKS in my possession wont just bolt on and go. PERIOD. Hence; 100 copies would do nothing but make 100 copies that WONT WORK. Second---My goal is to inexpensively alter this head so that it will work on a car with a stock fuel system. The way this head is shaped requires custom parts. The front cam support (see pictures posted before) lies and is cast exactly where the cam gear would be on the stock head. ----SO, just putting it on with different gears WONT WORK either. I am not going to have some one knock out 100 copies of this unless i get ONE stinkin head working first. And since everyone and their mother seems to be criticizing the speed at which I do this... aint makin it go any faster. No one wants to see this more than I, no one is vested in this more than I, and so no one should be grumpy, about the fact that I am taking my sweet time. --- Let me also, note, that the people whom ARE financially involved have not asked once, not ONCE, "when is this going to be done". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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