To rich at startup

[hunter85]

I picked up another conquest and it runs good when you get it started. Ok after the first start of the day its fine but if you dont crank the car as soon as you turn the key {IE leave the acc on to listen to radio, set tps, ect} and dont crank the starter it will flood the plugs and not start I know because I can uplug the primary injector and it will run for 10 secs off the gas its dumping into it , plug the injector back in good to go. I checked my oil and it looked amber but had a little gas smell to it so I changed it. I just rebuilt the TB because it was leaky and had to replace the oring inside where the main fuel line goes into on filler neck it was a oring I got a Advanced auto and it was same size but not mitsu OEM does that matter? Anyone have any sugestions for me I flowed the injectors while I had them out and the flow test was well on them inside tb was clean ect. everything looks good tps and isc work good in spec and ISC zips like it is supposed to and I am dumbfounded I have an extra ecu laying around I will try out today just to make sure but I dont think thats it. Thanks in advance for any help Travis

[MikeMeyerhoff]

Did you check for a leaking injector?

[hunter85]

I just took them off and flowed them they only shot when power was applied I dont think it is that Im chaging the ecu rite now but I also dont think that is it stumped lol

[JAinsworth]

If you run a primary and secondary, the clips may be switched.

Jimmy

[mikec]

It sounds like a previous owner may have rewired the fuel pump... you should not have the fuel pump running with the key in the ACC or ON positions unless the engine is actually running. The ECU won't command the injectors to open unless it sees ignition pulses (i.e. verifies the engine is actually running) so there should be no fuel flow in ACC position.

 

Even if the pump runs in ACC, that by itself won't flood the engine - since the injectors ought to be closed anyway. But if the pump IS running, that tells you stuff has been modded and who knows what was done. A leaking fuel pressure regulator will also flood the engine whenever the pump is running. Unplug the little "L" shaped vac hose coming from the bottom of the fuel pressure regulator (the little beer keg shaped thing hanging from the top/front of the throttle body) and see if there are ANY signs of gas in it... if so, the FPR is probably junk. That hose should be bone-dry.

 

As another test: right after you turn the engine off, unplug the electrical connectors at both fuel injectors. Wait a while, then try your ACC test. If the engine runs at all then fuel is getting into the engine via the fuel pressure regulator, a leaking injector, etc.

 

That o-ring on the fuel inlet hose: having a non-Mitsu o-ring there might lead to a fuel leak at the fuel hose to throttle body junction but that's all... fuel can't get from there to inside the engine from that o-ring being bad.

 

mike c.

[hunter85]

Nope no leaks I put diffrent ecu in and it didnt do anything diffrent. I was thinkin at work today maybe I didnt put the spark wires back on in order I will check them when I get home thanks for the responces I appreciate any suggestions.. pulled hose under fpr and nothing came out at idle not even a smell.

[hunter85]

Firing order on it is Distributor= 1324 one being top right corner then going clockwise 324..... And my piston order is 1234 one begin in front of bay 4 is the back of course I hope this is rite it runs to good not to be and im pretty sure it is but to make sure this is rite I am posting it this car is giving me nightmares

[hunter85]

I think it is a timing thing took off valve cover saw a new chain but no marks I will realign tdc and maybe i can fix it. When i try to put it in time it is either to advanced or to retarded not 6btdc I cant get to that. I turned the distributor thinking I was off a tooth but I cant get the correct tooth value is in the middle of 2 of the teeth. I think they did the timing chain wrong..... ALSO the crank pulley at the bottom wiggles a little bit its the water pump alternator pulley that is loose the fonr one is not is that bad

[mikec]

Firing order is 1-3-4-2. When looking at the wire posts on the top of the distributor cap, imagine the rotor spinning inside it, rotating clockwise. The #1 plug wire should go to the post on the upper left, the upper right post goes to spark plug for cyl 3, the lower right post goes to the #4 (closest to firewall) spark plug, and the lower left goes to the #2 spark plug. The cylinders are numbered 1-2-3-4 going from radiator end of engine towards the firewall.

 

When setting ignition timing there are a few things to be aware of:

1: while the engine idles, pull the vacuum hose off the distributor. If the timing changes, your vacuum hoses are connected improperly and that is messing up your timing. There should be NO vacuum on this hose on a properly running 2.6 StarQuest engine at idle.

 

2: idle RPMs must be fairly close to the normal idle speed - don't "crank up" the idle RPMs because the car won't idle properly at 900 or so RPM. The internal "centrifugal advancer" mechanism inside the distributor is designed to alter timing as RPMs increase... so if your idle RPMs are wrong you'll be fighting the advancer mechanism and getting incorrect timing.

 

3: the engine must be warmed up. While warming up, the ignitor module (on driver side fender area) adds an extra 5 degrees of timing advance to the engine.

 

4: if the knock sensor is detecting engine knock/vibration, or if the wiring to the sensor is bad, the ignitor will retard timing by as much as 8 degrees... but this isn't consistent either.

 

 

Timing chain marks: don't look for them. The timing chain does not make 1 revolution for every 1 or 2 engine revolutions like older V-engines so once the engine has been run or turned over they rarely line up again. That's why everybody says to look for the index pin (aka "dowel pin") to check camshaft timing. If you have a factory service manual, or the PDF versions scanned eons ago, look at page 9-31 in the engine chapter. (Called "Timing chain train" if your page numbers differ from the PDF manual) Look at the top/right of the drawing for the cam sprocket. Item #20 is the index pin I'm talking about. #19 is the cast-iron brown extension shaft that drives the distributor... see the black dot just to the right of the "19" pointer line on this shaft? That's the hole for the index pin you should see in your engine. Turn the crankshaft pulley bolt (clockwise only as you face the engine!) with a big wrench until the timing mark lines up with the TDC mark on the front engine cover. Look for that index pin on the extension shaft. If it's near 6 o'clock, rotate the crank pulley 1 full turn back to the TDC mark again. The index pin will be close to, but slightly ahead of (to the left as you face the cam sprocket) of 12 o'clock if the timing chain is correctly installed. You'll see a small drill divot in the cam sprocket close to the teeth edge - IGNORE IT. That's used only when installing the chain and won't help you once the engine has been run or turned over.

 

mike c.

[hunter85]

It is in perfect time now and starts and runs fine but it is wanting to die when coming to an idle and that sounds familiar sounds like a tps is going bad I will do a sweep test it is also a bit lean tword full boost and wot

[mikec]

The FAQ has procedures for adjusting the TPS, ISC, and MPS units - all get involved with setting the idle. The whole sequence must be done in order too - the settings depend on each other so monkeying with just one thing generally won't fix problems. The 87-later cars pre-set the idle controls as follows:

* while RPMs are well above idle, the ECU uses the ISC (Idle Speed Controller) motor to position the throttle plate a little above the proper idle opening. The ECU uses the MPS (Motor Position Sensor) to determine where the ISC is during this motion; when the ECU sees a specific MPS output voltage it stops the ISC.

 

* Once you lift your foot off the throttle, the "nose switch" (aka "idle switch") at the end of the ISC assembly closes. The ECU then moves the ISC again from the "a little above idle" throttle position to the correct idle position as engine RPMs drop. This is the "dashpot control" described in the factory service manual; leaving the throttle plates cracked open a bit while RPMs are higher than idle helps reduce backfire and emissions. Once the RPMs come down, the ECU moves the ISC until the MPS readout indicates the throttle plate should be at the perfect idle opening.

 

* Now the ECU monitors engine RPMs and fine-tunes throttle opening via the ISC to keep the idle at the right speed. The ECU does not remember the resulting MPS output though - i.e. the ECU doesn't "learn" the actual MPS output voltage your car needs to idle properly. That's why we have the FAQ idle adjustment procedure - we calibrate your car's throttle mechanism to your ISC & MPS so that your car will output the "factory" specified MPS voltage at the throttle opening that gives a proper idle RPM.

 

When the ISC/MPS adjustment is out of whack, what typically happens is the ECU pre-sets the throttle position to a too-closed position... then as you lift off the throttle pedal and the engine returns to idle it ends up idling way too slowly. After a second or so, the ECU is able to kick the RPMs back up with the ISC. In the FAQ you'll see a referenced to the Fixed SAS screw - this servers as a backup method to set minimum throttle position for idle... the Fixed SAS screw should only come into play if your ISC/MPS fail completely. Folks that use the Fixed SAS screw to make their car idle are just masking other problems. Typically they have busted ISC motors, jammed ISC gears, or a busted nose switch... without these, the ECU can't control the idle throttle position at all, nor can it kick the throttle open for higher idle RPMs when the air conditioning is ON or while the engine is warming up.

 

mike c.

[hunter85]

QUOTE:When the ISC/MPS adjustment is out of whack, what typically happens is the ECU pre-sets the throttle position to a too-closed position... then as you lift off the throttle pedal and the engine returns to idle it ends up idling way too slowly. After a second or so, the ECU is able to kick the RPMs back up with the ISC.

 

^^^^this is exactly what is happening it will start and idle well now that I put new plugs at .35 gap and fresh oil without gas in it.. The car runs great at full boost and like crap around idle when you boost hard then come to a abrupt stop it almost wants to die it will flash the lights like it died then come back up to idle Me thinks it is something to do with the isc I jsut replaced the one in my starion so I will throw the old one on this conquest to see if any diffrence is made thanks for your help mikec I apreciate it

[hunter85]

Looks like leaky injector when the car is off I swear it didnt leak before but I took off the ovcp and sure enough the pressure is leaking out there its about a drop every 2 mins or so. So any suggestions on aftermarket injectors im looking at trilogy since they are cheaper but if Fuel injection pro work better Ill spend the extra 50$ anyone had personal trys with either of these injectors please give me your input thanks Travis