1989 conquest idles only with both injectors hooked up

[JohnnyWadd]

History on my issue

http://www.starquest...ic=134673&st=20

 

Started out with as an issue running super rich with the gm maf, but the maft wasn't even powering the actuall gm sensor so i moved on to installing a 1g eclipse mas air sensor from my good running '88...

 

Should the car idle with just the primary hooked up? At idle My can dies if i unhook the seconday and dies if i unhook the primary (just not as quick when i unhook the primary)

 

FYI the following test have been done at least twice

 

check for stock codes, none except o2 when idling

led light check on injectors while idling both lite up

cts checked ok, tps checked ok, ics checked ok

double confirned with multi meter that the seconday and primary are actually wired right. (traced back to ecu) also traced for shorts between the injector leads and checked continuity from clips back to ecu harness.

 

Maybe im just retarded and its supposed to do that.

 

 

issue fixed.

Edited February 15, 2013 by JohnnyWadd

[Skullzaflare]

it is not suppose to, i thought you said it ran fine on 1 injector when the 1g maf was hooked up?

[JohnnyWadd]

it is not suppose to, i thought you said it ran fine on 1 injector when the 1g maf was hooked up?

 

No it runs ok with the 1gmas in there. Like a 2 mile scoot down the road at 3 psi boost no issues. Only way it ran on 1 injector was with the translator in there. I am guessing it was in some sort of limp mode since it was getting no info from the GM MAF.

[Skullzaflare]

No it runs ok with the 1gmas in there. Like a 2 mile scoot down the road at 3 psi boost no issues. Only way it ran on 1 injector was with the translator in there. I am guessing it was in some sort of limp mode since it was getting no info from the GM MAF.

check your resistance between the injector clip and ecu. possible the injector resister pack failed?

honestly, aside from wiring issue.

check your tps with a sweep test?

[JohnnyWadd]

check your tps with a sweep test?

 

will do a sweep test. have not just voltage in car.

Totally forgot about testing the injector resistor. Back to basics LOL

 

Edit. went out and tested my spare injectors resistor and plugged it in, in place on the current installed one. Same thing. Runnning both injectors at idle, and dies if i unplug either. Its like both injectors are being powered. Injectors both light up at idle with my led noid light when grounded to chassis or direct to injector.

 

However , having pulled the 1gmas out to acces the injector resistor i forgot to plug it back in after putting the hardpipe and hoses back , well the car started and idling a bit rough....so i pulled off the secondary injector clip and it idles better and stays running on the primary ... so i screw around for 5 minutes and still running do i am thinking HELL YAH i fixed it .... but its still idling a little choppy so all of a sudden i remember i never plugged the mas back in.

 

So shut off the car, connect the mas air sensor. Reconnect the injectors. Start car and yup same crap idles on both injectors and dies unless both connected.

Edited December 18, 2012 by JohnnyWadd

[Skullzaflare]

will do a sweep test. have not just voltage in car.

Totally forgot about testing the injector resistor. Back to basics LOL

injectors would be around 2.3, however, i ment through the clips and through the ecu, to see how much resistance is through the box.

[mr-starion]

Did you try swapping ecu's? Thats sounds very odd, ive never had a problem like that, what about removing the maft? Does it still do it?

[JohnnyWadd]

Did you try swapping ecu's? Thats sounds very odd, ive never had a problem like that, what about removing the maft? Does it still do it?

 

Yes i did try ecu swap same thing. Ya i already ditched the maft for a a 1gmas becuase the maft makes the car die when i hook up the pink power wire.

http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=134673&st=20

[JohnnyWadd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMKz4SO3v98&list=HL1355805285&index=1

 

Both injectors power the led light at idle. wt....

Edited December 18, 2012 by JohnnyWadd

[JohnnyWadd]

Just for the heck of it i pulled the TPS connector and started the car. Now it runs on PRIMARY INJECTOR only. Noid light confirmed, secondary is now not powered with the TPS disconnected....

 

Does this mean the tps was making the car think it was at WOT or something?

 

TPS checked out of car and specs out at 4.9k ohms between 1 and 3 terminal, and sweep test comes up .41k ohms and moves smoothly up to spec.....41 is slightly low as ther manual says .5k up to spec but it also says "approx .5k to the value in step 2" so my tps is pretty close.

 

Third time checking the tps thoroughly with the ohm meter.

 

edit in: i am getting .61 volts output from the tps , thats at high idle though so probably okay?? reset procedure sets it at .45 to .51 ....

what is the highest volt output the tps does at wot?

Edited December 18, 2012 by JohnnyWadd

[Skullzaflare]

Just for the heck of it i pulled the TPS connector and started the car. Now it runs on PRIMARY INJECTOR only. Noid light confirmed, secondary is now not powered with the TPS disconnected....

 

Does this mean the tps was making the car think it was at WOT or something?

 

TPS checked out of car and specs out at 4.9k ohms between 1 and 3 terminal, and sweep test comes up .41k ohms and moves smoothly up to spec.....41 is slightly low as ther manual says .5k up to spec but it also says "approx .5k to the value in step 2" so my tps is pretty close.

 

Third time checking the tps thoroughly with the ohm meter.

 

edit in: i am getting .61 volts output from the tps , thats at high idle though so probably okay?? reset procedure sets it at .45 to .51 ....

what is the highest volt output the tps does at wot?

right around 5v

you need to also slowly drag it up, and make sure the its steady

warm the car up with it unhooked, and do a tps reset

[StarquestRescue]

Check the tps voltage at the ecu, that is the only place it matters. If the ecu see a quick tps movement it will activate the secondary in anticipation of increased air flow. Or go strait to both injector mode if airflow increases sufficiently. If the tps is above a certain point it may go to both injector mode as well. I never really tested that.

 

So you are looking for a tps signal that it higher at the ecu then at the tps, or a erratic signal at the ecu. If the signal is not the same at both ends of the wire, than do continuity and short checks on the harness.

[JohnnyWadd]

Check the tps voltage at the ecu, that is the only place it matters. If the ecu see a quick tps movement it will activate the secondary in anticipation of increased air flow. Or go strait to both injector mode if airflow increases sufficiently. If the tps is above a certain point it may go to both injector mode as well. I never really tested that.

 

I tested it and on my car the car does start to use the secondary around 25% tps movement. (this is with another tps from my other car)

 

Here we have the noid light connected to the secondary at idle , if i manually operate the tps the light starts to flash rapidly. But it stops when i go back to throttle closed position.

 

 

So i guess the other tps was doing that but to higher degree. Weird becuase it passed the two out of the car tests ohms and sweep test. Only thing weird it had about .61 volts going out at 1000 rpms and thats as low as i could get it. But it would light up the primary noid light full on bright , where this tps just blinks it.

Edited December 21, 2012 by JohnnyWadd

[Metric-man]

This is not the forum for modified questions,

but what you need is a stock answer.

 

If you are using a piggyback computer like the "translator" or any thing that retains the stock ECU

 

You need to reset/ disconnect the ECU to wipe the learned memory clean,

when you change a significant component like the "Air Sensor".

 

Yes the piggyback will adapt the signal with some tuning adjustments,

but don't forget the drivability equation as related to by the OE ECU.

Because it takes a certain amount of drive time for it to adjust.

 

You can't just namby pamby plug in this non OE MAF and then switch to another non OE MAS

 

Even after resetting the TPS/ISC you disconnect the battery for 10 seconds.

 

.

[JohnnyWadd]

This is not the forum for modified questions,

but what you need is a stock answer..

 

Well sorry i went back to stock as best i could with a 1gmas wich i have been running for years with no issue. I dont have a ready to go stock aircan. And my question was a stock question about the car idling with the primary injector.

 

 

You can't just namby pamby plug in this non OE MAF and then switch to another non OE MAS.

 

Uh ya i dont "namby pamby" i went through with a ohm meter and tested stuff. When i found everything close or at spec thats when i tried the 1gmas instead of the gmmas with was installed. So im back to all mitsubishi known working in a starion/conquest components.

 

You need to reset/ disconnect the ECU to wipe the learned memory clean,

 

Even after resetting the TPS/ISC you disconnect the battery for 10 seconds.

 

 

Um sorry i guess i didnt specify but ya i did disconnect the battery and ecu during the mas change out and i have disconnected the ecu several times tracing the injector wires and reading the tps volts at the ecu. Do you think i just popped of the mas air while it was running and slapped in the other?

Maybe you didnt read the thread i linked.

 

I did once start the car with the 1gmas unplugged but it was shut of and powered down.

 

 

If you are using a piggyback computer like the "translator" or any thing that retains the stock ECU

 

 

Im not using a piggy back.

[JohnnyWadd]

Issue solved. The problem was a Thottle Position Sensor that was giving too high voltage. .61v at idle. No issue found in the harness or other component. TPS voltage out read the same at sensor and ECU.

 

The car actually ran decent with those two injectors firing. The only reason i spotted it as an issue was that the previously installed GM MAF and MAFT where at first thought to be at fault for the two injectors fueling at idle. So the issue was in the spotlight so to speak.

 

Car is running 14-15 afr with a 1gmas. Only boosting to 7 at the moment (set that way)

[speed racer]

Issue solved. The problem was a Thottle Position Sensor that was giving too high voltage. .61v at idle. No issue found in the harness or other component. TPS voltage out read the same at sensor and ECU.

 

The car actually ran decent with those two injectors firing. The only reason i spotted it as an issue was that the previously installed GM MAF and MAFT where at first thought to be at fault for the two injectors fueling at idle. So the issue was in the spotlight so to speak.

 

Car is running 14-15 afr with a 1gmas. Only boosting to 7 at the moment (set that way)

sweet.i know this is a kinda old post but have had same issue for a while.runs ok w both running just fouls plugs if I sit and idle too long and well wastes expensive gas.will check both of the TPS I have.maybe both bad as I swapped in one I got from an engine I got and it didn't fix anything.now just need a day or evening off in daylite to do it.

[Shelby]

most of the time the TPS is too blame for both injs fireing , don't over look the wireing at the connector a strand maybe shorting out the tps signal once in a while or the wiper may be broken loose and bounceing around giving false readings