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What Rating Resistor Was This?

nightwalkerancestery

By nightwalkerancestery,
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nightwalkerancestery Newbie

nightwalkerancestery

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So it took me a while but I finally realized that my parts car is an 89! Says Oct of 88 and I didn't put two and two together till now. It only took me... 7 years :ph34r: Anyways!

 

Realizing this I remembered that the 89's has the auto down window switch along with other goodies! So I went out and pulled off the switch and started the cleaning. I took it ENTIRELY apart and cleaned all the contacts and made sure everything was placed back correctly.

 

I got to the circuit board and cleaned all the contacts. But my problem is that when I flipped it over, one of the resistors was SO corroded/rusted that as soon as I hit it with the brush it just disintegrated. I couldn't read the bands on it whatsoever before or obviously after.

 

Would anyone be able to take theirs apart whether spare or not and tell me what the rating on this resistor is? All you have to do is pop off the plastic piece holding the circuit board and separate the plastic holder from the board and read the bands.

 

This is where the circuit board is located (mine is removed from the holder but the holder is the beige plastic thing on the right side)

 

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u398/N1ghtWalker/Starion%20Restoration/20121101213618.jpg

 

If you don't know how to read resistors, just post a picture and I'll read it myself.

 

This is where the resistor is...

 

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u398/N1ghtWalker/Starion%20Restoration/20121101213557.jpg

 

You should be able to figure out which it is on your board if you compare. If you look next to the black wire you can see where the leads still are and where the resistor is NOT.

 

NOTE: You MUST have the auto-down switch. Standard 88 and older switches don't have this circuit board! Just to save people the effort to find out it was pointless ;)

 

- Charles

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apate Newbie

apate

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Charles

I when out to my parts car which is a 89 and pulled the switch and it is not a auto-down someone must have replaced it.

 

Looking at your picture I do not thing you are missing a resistor it looks like to me it is missing a glass bead diode or a capacitor .

 

Look at the silkscreen under the resistors they are rectangular and the silkscreen under the missing part is rounded with a polarity line on it.

and it does not look like it has a reference designation

 

Can you take better pictures top and bottom of the board?

I might be able to create a schematic of the board if I had better pics.

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nightwalkerancestery Newbie

nightwalkerancestery

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Bummer! Actually now that you mention it...it seems like it actually might be a diode. There's a D beside it which would indicate such. But the silkscreen on the other diodes aren't the same either. This is the only one that is oval like that. All other resistors and diodes are square. I don't think it's a capacitor. It's too linear to be. Capasitors usually stand from the board with only few exceptions. It looked more like a resisitor but I could be mistaken. There was nothing to go off of when I pulled it out it was so corroded.

 

I'll take a picture tomorrow. I'm not in the shop right now. The bottom circuitry looks VERY basic though.

 

- Charles

 

P.S. I found out that the louvers I picked up from a buddy of mine originally came off of your old yellow Quest. Funny how things get around!

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nightwalkerancestery Newbie

nightwalkerancestery

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Ok! So I finally got around to taking some pictures. Sorry it took so long... I had three exams on Monday :wacko:

 

Here's the top...

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u398/N1ghtWalker/Starion%20Restoration/20121113225433.jpg

 

And here's the bottom circuitry...

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u398/N1ghtWalker/Starion%20Restoration/20121113225612.jpg

 

Sorry about them being so dark... it was all I could do to get light on them without it refecting back even without flash and a reg light on in the room. Left my good camera at my buddy's.

 

- Charles

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ghinckley68 Newbie

ghinckley68

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That is probably a zener diode. where is it located if it easy to get to Ill pull mine out and see.

 

I would reflow all the solder on that thing. the 2403d is a dual dc to dc converter and is still available. The zener is probably used to provide a reference voltage for the 2403d.

Why they need a dc to dc converter is odd probably some type of latching circuit.

 

 

If you want Ill reflow it all and replace any bad parts for 25 plus cost of parts.

 

The Zenner blew so I would bet those diodes and the 2403d or toast I would replace the red cap and the transistor is probably toast also

Edited by ghinckley68
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nightwalkerancestery Newbie

nightwalkerancestery

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That is probably a zener diode. where is it located if it easy to get to Ill pull mine out and see.

 

I would reflow all the solder on that thing. the 2403d is a dual dc to dc converter and is still available. The zener is probably used to provide a reference voltage for the 2403d.

Why they need a dc to dc converter is odd probably some type of latching circuit.

 

 

If you want Ill reflow it all and replace any bad parts for 25 plus cost of parts.

 

The Zenner blew so I would bet those diodes and the 2403d or toast I would replace the red cap and the transistor is probably toast also

 

The main question is what zener diode does the board require? I can reflow everything myself. I've got that covered. I just need to know what goes into that spot. Also, it didn't blow. It just corroded. It was lightly used from the parts car that had about 54k miles on it. But the parts car has been open to the environment for about 10 or so years. So it was introduced heavily to water and anything else. The auto down feature still works. Only the reg down position doesn't work. So the circuitry works. There's just a broken circuit due to that misc part.

 

The circuitboard is very easy to get out. You can simply pop the door panel away from the door, unhook the switch connector, push in the metal tabs and push the switches up. Then it's pretty obvious. I got it out without any damage in about ten or less mins.

 

Let me know your further thoughts. Thanks so far!

 

- Charles

Edited by nightwalkerancestery
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apate Newbie

apate

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Are there any numbers on the 3 legged IC at the bottom of the board?

The yellow wires are covering the silkscreen below that IC. What is written there?

One last question for now what are the dimensions of the board?

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ghinckley68 Newbie

ghinckley68

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In what respect? To power the switches? Or to find the level of current?

 

- Charles

 

 

Zener Diodes or used mainly used as a voltage reference for a circuit that provides a regulated power supply. They are not used like regular diodes. They have whats called a breakdown voltage and that is the voltage they conduct voltage at but they are very low power so they need a current stage to do any real work.

Either the DC-DC convert is the power stage or the transistor is. However the more likely use of it to drive the base of the transistor and use it at a switch. If the out put is indeed tied to base of that transistor then it may have a breakdown voltage as low as 3V or even 1.5V as it real only needs to turn the transistor on so to speak and that requires very little current just enough voltage to trigger it.

Like i said I will tare mine apart next week need to replace the door speakers any way and I will make a schematic and all the part values so we can post them on line. who know may be even able to duplicate so all the year can have it.

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apate Newbie

apate

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It would be great if someone could ring out the board and verify my schematic is correct

I used the pictures Charles took to draw the circuit so I might have missed something.

Once I get a verification that the schematic and parts are right. I can make the board layout.

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nightwalkerancestery Newbie

nightwalkerancestery

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Zener Diodes or used mainly used as a voltage reference for a circuit that provides a regulated power supply. They are not used like regular diodes. They have whats called a breakdown voltage and that is the voltage they conduct voltage at but they are very low power so they need a current stage to do any real work.

Either the DC-DC convert is the power stage or the transistor is. However the more likely use of it to drive the base of the transistor and use it at a switch. If the out put is indeed tied to base of that transistor then it may have a breakdown voltage as low as 3V or even 1.5V as it real only needs to turn the transistor on so to speak and that requires very little current just enough voltage to trigger it.

Like i said I will tare mine apart next week need to replace the door speakers any way and I will make a schematic and all the part values so we can post them on line. who know may be even able to duplicate so all the year can have it.

 

Oh, I get that. I was asking what you meant by using the 12v 500mw device. I didn't understand what you were saying to use it on. But definitely do that! That'd be awesome if we could reproduce them!

 

Are there any numbers on the 3 legged IC at the bottom of the board?

The yellow wires are covering the silkscreen below that IC. What is written there?

One last question for now what are the dimensions of the board?

 

There are no number ON the three legged IC. And it's actually to the left of the board. the silkscreen to the left of it is "Q" and under it is "E"

The dimensions are ~ 1 7/16" across and 1 1/8" up.

 

It would be great if someone could ring out the board and verify my schematic is correct

I used the pictures Charles took to draw the circuit so I might have missed something.

Once I get a verification that the schematic and parts are right. I can make the board layout.

 

It looks like everything is correct. But the missing R4 looks to be 150 +/- 5%. the bands have worn off on the top but they're there underneath the board. And R2 looks to be incorrect. I figured it up to be 7.5k +/- 2%. I figured it up with the opposite polarity just to make sure I didn't get the polarity right and it figured up to be 21k +/- .1%. 7.5k seems to be the correct rating. But the rest are all correct.

 

- Charles

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ghinckley68 Newbie

ghinckley68

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Instead of fixing this prehistoric nightmare lets use one of these.

 

http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardMicro

 

then we should be able to control both windows with it and do all kinds of cool things

 

Like out roll up on loking the doors if both seat belts are in the forward positon stuf like that.

 

this thing only cost slighty more than the parts to fix that board plus it will work in any car

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nightwalkerancestery Newbie

nightwalkerancestery

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Slightly more than the parts to fix this board? :blink:

 

I can get all the parts to replace EVERY resistor, diode, etc for less than HALF the price for that thing. $35 really isn't bad for that but I'm going to college while trying to pay for a house and support myself and my girlfriend. I can barely afford a diode lol.

 

Maybe when I'm a little more financially comfortable. Not to mention, I'm sure it'd take a LOT to make the locks work in conjunction with something else especially since the ETACS in these cars are so tempermental.

 

There'd have to be quite a bit of modding I'd think. But, maybe you can do it and do a write-up or how-to for it :P

 

- Charles

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hippynerd Newbie

hippynerd

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There is no good reason to use a micro, there are many arduinos out there. You can get a cheap knock-off nano for like $12. I have a couple of them.

 

While you are controlling the window, you can also check the door and hatch switches, and do something when those change (like play a sound, or turn on a light). You can also have it run custom tail/turn signals and other lights.

 

If you want to have real fun, you could wire it up to the ECU, and log data (like injector pulses, O2 sensor readings, ...)

 

Thanks for posting the schematic, I may make one (there are aftermarket ones on ebay, but I would rather make one.

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nightwalkerancestery Newbie

nightwalkerancestery

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If you could do a writeup on how to wire it up to do such things then be my guest. Personally i'd want to do automatic lights on and lights off like the newer cars when it senses light or dark. Also, maybe lock the doors when the key is on. That'd probably be about it to be honest. But first, i'd like to get this switch repaired before doing such a thing.

 

If anybody wants the schematic file just PM me your email

I used Eagle to create the schematic

It is free for small projects

 

Here is the address http://www.cadsoftus...le/?language=en

 

Is it the same schematic you posted earlier? Or an updated one? Btw... I never did see the resistor/diode/zenerdiode that I've been trying to figure out. Did you leave it out of the schematic for a reason or did I miss it? Of course it'd be a "?" But i'd still like to see its placement.

 

- Charles

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apate Newbie

apate

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You missed it. It is on the far left and the reference designator is DZ it is connected across power and ground.

I have updated the schematic with your corrections and I add the value for C1.

We still have one component (the three legged IC) we do not know what it is.

 

The software I used to draw the schematic is used to produce a PCB layout which we can send to a board house to fabricate.

I was going to use SMT (surface mount technology) parts for the resistors and cap,

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nightwalkerancestery Newbie

nightwalkerancestery

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CRAP! I don't know WHY SQC didn't contain this post under my content with new responses! I know it has been a while since this thread got a last response. HOWEVER! I have looked at the schematic and noticed the changes. I can't see the model of the IC from observation so I will unsolder it tomorrow so that I can see the model. Hopefully this will make it able to figure out the rating of that DZ. Let me know that you are still with me please and I will try to get the info on that IC as early as I can tomorrow. I will promise that! Thanks everyone for your help!

 

- Charles

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