t70

[DieHARDmitsu.]

 

 

Why does it spool faster? who is to say? it might be the tune.

You once said you tuned on the dyno to 400+ right? If it was on the street your car would spool that .82 faster

Should of done it on the street. You don't drive on the dyno so why do all your tuning there?

I have a new stock mechanical cam, hd springs, new mech arms, new adjusters.

i do not believe in t3 exhaust for these cars, non divided full t4! just do your homework on the sizing.

 

It is not a hp race...

Part of your answer should include the fact that you have a ceramic coated, equal length header. That makes a huge difference in spool up time. It keeps the heat in the header until it hits the turbine wheel. Tech. is using a T3 cast manifold which allows the air to expand before it hits the turbine due to its port and runner size.

I currently have a Gatos equal length header on the 87 and it makes a nite and day difference over running a cast manifold with a bigger turbo. My T4 spools just as nasty as the .50 trim T3/t4 I ran a couple years ago but pulls harder at the same boost level.

[lionbull]

That header is working.

I personally would not do cast log manifold on these cars but do what is best for you.

I believe in giving this "old boat anchor" attention where it needs it the most which is at the exhaust side. The HEAT should be extracted away from the head, through individual runners as soon as it comes out.

I feel with the stock manifold the heat just expands and puddles at the head, not good for a stock car and definitely not good for ANY performance car.

Edited March 16, 2012 by lionbull

[Technology]

I've had my car tuned only on Dyno Dynamics and it can simulate the road under all conditions, hold RPM at any load, etc. It's safe and controlled.

 

I've also driven my car immediately after tuning sessions and for long periods after being tuned. The turbo spools at the same RPM it did on the dyno. So that myth is busted.

 

Next I will just have to get a header made and show the differences. I'll be sure to log back pressure and EGT's if possible right next to the head. Lots of money involved in putting people in their place.

 

Meow, I still haven't seen your dyno plots with boost, torque and HP. I don't care what the power numbers are, but they tell me if the engine is breathing, and how it's tuned. Of course this isn't a HP race, no need to even bring that thought into this thread. I want to see if your boost drops off, or if the power drops off because your gigantic T4 housings are actually flowing less than my tiny wittle T3.

[lionbull]

RUFF RUFF

 

LOL I never said the housing was huge or GIGANTIC. You got some sort of envy there?

My dyno plots with boost I will post when I post them. FULL STOP

No machine can simulate the road under ALL conditions. I know how Dyno Dynamics work.

What you want is to work out all those little hiccups. A street tune is more effective there.

Then go on the dyno to fine tune for max power.

I might not make as much as you did with my stock bottom end (left to be seen after I fine tune on the dyno) but my car absolutely drives like a suped up factory car, just smooth hard acceleration, and that is what i care about. That is why I say it is not a hp race...If you have a monster track car that will not be safe or attract unwanted attention from the authorities then do the dyno.

 

oh yeah and spending money to put people in their place? make sure you spend some of that money on a good driver for that car of yours.

Edited March 16, 2012 by lionbull

[Technology]

My points obviously need to be proven, and the only way I can do that is back to back comparisons of different parts. And yes, it is very impractical to street tune my car, however, it is merely a street car, not a track car. And no envy, haha, perhaps you misunderstood. I was saying my T3 is effectively bigger than your T4. Now who's got envy? Lmao!

[87chyconquest]

it says a/r 70 on the compressor, but as far as the turbine goes that is a good question it says no where on it. all i know is it is way bigger than the stock turbo.

[Technology]

Sometimes it will be cast into the metal near the flange, if not on the outside, sometimes inside the housing, just next to the flange.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

post a few pics of the turbo taken from different angles.

[Chad]

Then why does your HUGE .58 t4 spool 800 rpm before my .82 T3 does? Compression differences don't matter, my EIP cannon made the turbo spool 200rpm later than the magna, I have a 292 cam.

 

because the front and back are in good balance. the compressor isn't too big for the turbine to turn up. An unbalanced turbo will be slow to spool, though it will still make boost.

[Chad]

it says a/r 70 on the compressor, but as far as the turbine goes that is a good question it says no where on it. all i know is it is way bigger than the stock turbo.

A/R 70 is the ratio of the inside diameter of the housing to the radius of the housing, it's like telling you the shape of the funnel. both compressor and turbine housings are funnels that are rotated into a circular shape. the slope of the walls effects the flow, and is measured in A/R. It has nothing to do with the compressor wheel or potential flow. The most useful measurement is the diameter of the compressor wheel at the front [inlet] of the fins.

[akauf]

ss .64 t4 ~ ss .82 t3. A 1.06 divided t4 is somewhere in the vicinity of a t3 .82.

 

at least as far as real world horsepower expectations go.

[akauf]

3AN don't mean nothing. Those turbos don't live very long with oil pressure over 50ish psi or too much volume. At start up and over 3000 RPM, a healthy motor makes way more pressure than that.

 

then why did my precision on a vag 1.8t smoke with a -4 but it was not a probelm with a -3. Also why did the techs at precision, cts, forced fed, awd, etc. tell me to drop the feed line size to solve the oiling issue with the turbo?

 

for that matter whats the difference between -4 and a .032 restricter for a gt if pressure is the only thing to consider. It is volume that is the issue. to great of a volume at a given pressure causes an issue with oil flow.

Edited March 17, 2012 by akauf

[Chad]

Does it really look like the devider takes up that much room to you?

• http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/sites/default/files/turboTech/TurboTech-Basic/cutaway.gif
  

[Technology]

 

because the front and back are in good balance. the compressor isn't too big for the turbine to turn up. An unbalanced turbo will be slow to spool, though it will still make boost.

 

I already stated that my compressor and turbine are nearly the same size.

[Chad]

What size are they? I missed that part.

 

On the line thing, it is pressure that kills the seal, it's just that a restrictive line reduces pressre at the bearing by restricting flow. A small line can work just like a restrictor orifice. Most newer turbos don't require them, its the old designs that do for sure. Personaly I run a oil pressure regulator designed for a dry sump system to keep pressure peaks at bay. That way I don't starve the bearing at idle or cruise, cause a restrictor restricts at all times. best to seek input from the turbo manufacturer, not internet speculation. Th recomemded pressure for my turbo is 60psi, but will withstand more. They actualy dynoed a signifigant increase in power when they reduced pressure to something like 30psi, probably not a good idea for a street driven car, but excess pressure isn't really a good thing in several ways.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

 

then why did my precision on a vag 1.8t smoke with a -4 but it was not a probelm with a -3. Also why did the techs at precision, cts, forced fed, awd, etc. tell me to drop the feed line size to solve the oiling issue with the turbo?

 

for that matter whats the difference between -4 and a .032 restricter for a gt if pressure is the only thing to consider. It is volume that is the issue. to great of a volume at a given pressure causes an issue with oil flow.

In addition to what Chad just said or to simplify, the older Garretts don't like to swim in too much oil cuz it ends up out the back seal. By reducing the size of the feed line,or using a restrictor for that matter, you're actually limiting the oil amout/volume entering the turbo. If you read my post again I said "pressure over 50ish psi or too much volume"

The trick to making these turbos last longer is to limit amount of oil entering the cartridge but not starving it.

They sell these little buggers in different sizes, you just have to figure out which one you need depending on you engine's oil pressure, turbo size and oil viscosity being used.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oil-Inlet-Restrictor-065-hole-size-1-8-NPT-Journal-/370371142938?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item563bd7251a&vxp=mtr

 

Also adequate drainage/oil return is a must have.

[akauf]

thats what I'm saying, too much volume is the problem most times. I missed that one part of your post.

 

 

chad, idk what the reason is but I have seen a lot of comparisons between ss and ts and I can say that every time the 1.0 is losing boost and power big time while a .82 t3 is still holding strong. this is same everything except housing and manifold. the 1.06 seems to spool fast yet hold as much as the .82 t3. This is all based on the 68mm garrett turbine.

 

only way to know is to run it, and watch your back pressure. Its pretty easy to switch housing latter.

[StarquestRescue]

I currently have a Gatos equal length header on the 87 and it makes a nite and day difference over running a cast manifold with a bigger turbo.

DH can you post some pictures of your gato's exhaust manifold? And who would one contact to get one? Gato does not seem to have a web site.

 

chad, idk what the reason is but I have seen a lot of comparisons between ss and ts and I can say that every time the 1.0 is losing boost and power big time while a .82 t3 is still holding strong. this is same everything except housing and manifold. the 1.06 seems to spool fast yet hold as much as the .82 t3. This is all based on the 68mm Garrett turbine.

In this example the .82 t3 is single scroll? and the 1.0 t4 twin scroll? vs 1.06 t? ts? or ss? Edited March 19, 2012 by StarquestRescue

[DieHARDmitsu.]

DH can you post some pictures of your gato's exhaust manifold? And who would one contact to get one? Gato does not seem to have a web site.

In this example the .82 t3 is single scroll? and the 1.0 t4 twin scroll? vs 1.06 t? ts? or ss?

 

here you go:

 

http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss25/squaddy11/DSC01386.jpg

 

http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss25/squaddy11/DSC01394-1.jpg

 

http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss25/squaddy11/DSC01396.jpg

 

I' didn't coat these headers but should have, it caught a tan already.

 

I'll Pm you the contact info, have it stored in my old phone. BTW you PM box is full.

Edited March 19, 2012 by DieHARDmitsu.

[lionbull]

I recommend you send the header to Swain Tech when you get a chance to take them off.

http://swaintech.com/

 

you can search the dsm and other forums for reviews and comparison between swain, jet hot and others.

Edited March 19, 2012 by lionbull

[DieHARDmitsu.]

I recommend you send them to Swain Tech when you get a chance to take them off.

Yeah, I thought about that a while back but they are alright for now.

Edited March 19, 2012 by DieHARDmitsu.

[lionbull]

Yeah, I thought about that a while back but there alright for now.

 

yeah, should do the turbo exhaust housing as well when you get ready

Edited March 19, 2012 by lionbull

[DieHARDmitsu.]

Housing is coated

[StarquestRescue]

I'll Pm you the contact info, have it stored in my old phone. BTW you PM box is full.

Thanks, i deleted a couple.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

Thanks, i deleted a couple.

Pm sent.