Chasing same fuel or spark problem!

[surpra550]

I have a 1989 Tsi with minor upgrades. Exhaust, boost control, bov, K&N filter and adjustable fuel pressure gauge. I have a new bov, plugs, wires, cap and rotor, coil, fuel pressure set at 38lbs, boost set at about 15-16lbs, and timing advanced. I had a problem initially where under full boost the car would sputter and black smoke would come out of the exhaust. I was told to get a new BOV. I "thought" that straighten the problem out, but it seemed to correct it in some respect and create a different symptom. We then did a full tune up and set the timing and fuel pressure. THEN, the car seemed to run perfect!! Under partial throttle and wide open throttle the car was balls to the wall! Drove it around in short spurts and everything SEEMED to be alright. NOW the problem is, once the car comes up to full operating temp,(after about 5-7 minutes of driving) the car falls flat on its face! Wide open throttle to redline is IMPOSSIBLE!! You can feather the throttle and bring up the RPMs gradually and you might get to redline. Once you open it up, it just cuts back and sputters. We are clueless what to do right now!!! PLEASE HELP BEFORE I PUT A MATCH TO THIS CAR!!!!!!!!! (JK) Thanks in advance!

[Lance_S]

Sounds like a fuel problem. I didn't see where you had the Air Fuel Ratio gauge. You gotta have one if your running that kind of boost. You can't know where your fuel is without one and without one you pulled the pin on a grenade, now it's just time. Sounds like your fat. She will fall on her face when she's over rich. Pull the plugs and take a look, see what that tells you, fat or lean. It can fall on it's face if it's lean too but if you have black smoke most likely your burning off extra fuel in the exhaust system.

[surpra550]

Sounds like a fuel problem. I didn't see where you had the Air Fuel Ratio gauge. You gotta have one if your running that kind of boost. You can't know where your fuel is without one and without one you pulled the pin on a grenade, now it's just time. Sounds like your fat. She will fall on her face when she's over rich. Pull the plugs and take a look, see what that tells you, fat or lean. It can fall on it's face if it's lean too but if you have black smoke most likely your burning off extra fuel in the exhaust system.

It didn't start running good UNTIL we richened it up. Once we richened it, it runs good UNTIL the car gets to full operating temp.

[Lance_S]

Still Surpra,

 

You've got no reference. You need to pull your plugs, at least one or two and see what they are saying to find out if shes fat or lean. I know you can't just go out tonight and grab an AF gauge but you can pull a plug or two and post the pic. At least it would give us so info on whether your chasing fuel or spark.

[surpra550]

Still Surpra,

 

You've got no reference. You need to pull your plugs, at least one or two and see what they are saying to find out if shes fat or lean. I know you can't just go out tonight and grab an AF gauge but you can pull a plug or two and post the pic. At least it would give us so info on whether your chasing fuel or spark.

We just put new plugs in last week. The old ones were not fouled. They were light grey in color. And actually the car is at my shop and I can't get to the plugs anyways, plus they are new and I haven't put too many miles on the car since we installed them. The thing that confuses the heck out of us is the car runs PERFECT until it warms up. And under wide open throttle, when it does start to break down and sputter, you can lift off the gas some and it goes back to running good until you hammer it again.

[Skullzaflare]

We just put new plugs in last week. The old ones were not fouled. They were light grey in color. And actually the car is at my shop and I can't get to the plugs anyways, plus they are new and I haven't put too many miles on the car since we installed them. The thing that confuses the heck out of us is the car runs PERFECT until it warms up. And under wide open throttle, when it does start to break down and sputter, you can lift off the gas some and it goes back to running good until you hammer it again.

stock turbo?

what kind of boost gauge?

if your on a stock turbo, put the stock FPR back on, hell, im ona 20g on stock FPR no problems

are you sure its a RRFPR?

[Indiana]

You got issues you don't even know about yet.

 

The plugs are likely wrong TYPE but you've created some issues you might not be aware of yet but we'll back up to some basics first.

 

The distributor sticky? Its mechanical in the that stator moves and changes timing from a vacuum advance unit that also retards timing under boost, if this is original its all gummed up and SLOW to react. If the vac. adv is bad, it might to a small extent increase timing but it will not retard timing and that causes the knock sensor to go off and the ignitor to yank back timing. The car bucks and jerks and won't rev up or continue to go until you lift the pedal and start that chain of events again. To test that vac. adv, pull the dist. cap off and put a short hose on there and suck on it, the arm pulls in great now cover the tip of the hose with your tongue and the arm better stay pulled in if not its junk, go order a new one and no you can't repair it.

 

Vac. adv. here:

http://www.b2600turbo.com/distributorvacuum_advance_unit.htm

 

The spark plugs, what brand did you get and what is their PART#?

 

The plug wires can't be tangled up and they aren't to touch anything.

 

See here about using the correct plug TYPE:

http://www.b2600turbo.com/Spark%20Plugs.htm

The stock ECU. Its a antique piece of crap and it can only do so much and it assumes many things. It assumes your injectors are working, are clean and dispensing the correct amount of fuel and in the correct location and connected to the correct connector in that the 87+ cars use a primary injector and a larger secondary and they connectors can't be swapped.

 

The BOV creates issues big time if it leaks. Its to only open after you have some boost and rpms and lift the pedal and it lets out metered air the MAF thought went into the cylinders so it already planned for that in the fuel it dispensed.

 

The big issue is the fuel pressure regulator you changed. The stock one isn't going to put out higher pressure after stock boost levels. What you've found out is that at the lower rpms in the higher gears if you floor it the car is a dead dog. As that fuel pressure rises past stock limits say where boost is 15psi and you have that lets say in 4th at 3000rpms well the mix is so rich and the timing not fully mechanically advanced (independent of the vac. adv. units operation) plus th vac. adv. retards timing as much as it can, the engine just won't rev up, the fuel mix is so rich the plugs foul and misfire and you know the rest.

 

The cure for that is a MAFT or SAFC depending on if you keep the MAF or change to a MAS.

 

You have to go back and check your CTS and injectors if they leak or spray poorly. The clips to them crusty or the terminals on the injectors crusty. The other things I mentioned and you can read the link below that describes what the ECU does to control the fuel.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/ECI%20System.htm

[rockvilleash1976]

The plugs that came on the car are the correct NGK plugs. The injector clips are newer I installed them when i got the car. I also replaced the vacume advance on the car. I do agree that you should pull the dis and clean it.

 

I would set the boost back down to 13psi. The car was set to max 9.5 from factory so when i was running it at 13 it was already pushing the stock computer. I can send you the stock FPR that came off the car and you can set everything back to factory. You should find a stock pipe and house and remove BOV all together. They are cheap and easy to find. Once these mods are removed you have a better chance and finding the problem. Once you figure it out you can mod the car in any direction and if anoter issue come up you have a better chance at figure it out.

 

PM me your mailing address and I will send you the stock FPR.

[surpra550]

stock turbo?

what kind of boost gauge?

if your on a stock turbo, put the stock FPR back on, hell, im ona 20g on stock FPR no problems

are you sure its a RRFPR?

Yes stock turbo. Turned the boost way down, but same symptom once the car warms up good. This car runs PERFECT until it warms up????? Going to remove and clean distributor next.

[surpra550]

Yes stock turbo. Turned the boost way down, but same symptom once the car warms up good. This car runs PERFECT until it warms up????? Going to remove and clean distributor next.

And put the stock FPR back on once Ashley sends it to me!

[Indiana]

Unplug your CTS and temperature gauge sending unit when this happens and see if that makes a difference.

 

 

[surpra550]

FINALLY FIXED THIS TSI!!!!!!!! Wound up doing plugs, wires, distributor, Bov, fuel filter, Mass air flow sensor, and a WHOLE LOT OF TWEAKING!! Winds up being the freaking fuel pump!!! So keep that in mind if your car is sputtering or breaking down. Hope this helps!! Now I can really enjoy the car!

[Caliber308]

Yes stock turbo. Turned the boost way down, but same symptom once the car warms up good. This car runs PERFECT until it warms up????? Going to remove and clean distributor next.

 

Do some research. The TD0512A is only efficient from 7 to 15 psi boost, and at 15 or 16 psi boost you are pushing it to the limit and it won't last long. By all means, INSTALL A WIDEBAND and a Aftermarket Boost Gauge. You will then know if your problem is fuel related and you will get a true PSI boost reading. Plus, they both are a must when you boost above Stock limits. I have read a lot of posts on here over the years from guys with blown engines..Why? OVERBOOSTING!!! without the proper modifications or turbocharger in place. Don't be one of those guys

 

Bill

Edited August 31, 2011 by Caliber308

[DMNDSTAR87]

 

Do some research. The TD0512A is only efficient from 7 to 15 psi boost, and at 15 or 16 psi boost you are pushing it to the limit and it won't last long. By all means, INSTALL A WIDEBAND and a Aftermarket Boost Gauge. You will then know if your problem is fuel related and you will get a true PSI boost reading. Plus, they both are a must when you boost above Stock limits. I have read a lot of posts on here over the years from guys with blown engines..Why? OVERBOOSTING!!! without the proper modifications or turbocharger in place. Don't be one of those guys

 

Bill

i hate to admit but i was one of those guys---ran 14-15psi boost on stock turbo with factory boost gauge and for 18months i thought i was cool until EPIC FAIL--heed calibers warning and install a wideband and good boost gauge---

gig out

Edited September 1, 2011 by DMNDSTAR87