BOOSTED88tsi Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 how would compression going up with oil in the cylinder equate to valvetrain. Not being a d*** just saying? This is the first motor I've had with those things and it'll be the last lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 The oil changed the seal around the valve seat. Lifters can get crap in them and stick too high and not let a valve seat, a jamb nut on a screw if they are mechanical can come loose and the screw move. You need to check that. A retainer lock can come out and chew up and pop up a valve seal and cause a valve to be pulled sideways and the spring to be tilted and it can actually eat up a valve guide and the valve wobble in the guide and then combustion leaks up the gauge and you get smoke out the oil cap. This could have happened 100s of miles back and it doesn't take long to start to eat up a valve guide. Valves that have been floated and engines overheated have valve springs that lean eat valve guides. One thing could have happened then if a screw came loose later who knows. I've seen all this. You have a mechanical rocker assembly, you need to get every valve screw as close to being the same as possible. That difference changes the valve timing from cylinder to cylinder. Its on of the reasons I looked for alternatives. Its not a 100% certain answer, its a possibility. You want to pull the motor without even looking go for it. Like I said, maybe your compression numbers were off already and your turbo seal or bearings just went and that's why its smoking. That smoke from the turbo is pushed out with the oil down the drain same as it goes out the exhaust so that's how it ends up in the crankcase and blows out your valve cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 if you have the time and realy want to find the cause of oil smoke , start with removeing the turbo , if the turbo is the cause of the oil smoke the turbo inlet will be clean and dry , if there is oil in the turbo inlet ,it'l also be in the exh manifold,, removeing the exh manifold will show what cyl is burning the oil ,if it's only one cyl then all the other out lets will be clean ,, with oil in the one to the cycl thats burning oil as to the question how do i know it's rings and not valves causeing the low compression when doing an oil squirt into a cyl , thats easy oil will not flow up hill on it's own,,no oil will get to the intake valve seat to change any seal abilitys ,,now if you put oil into the intake side it can help seal up a leaking valve seat , but thats very hard to do on these engines because the intake sets 3/4 inch lower then the intake valve passages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTED88tsi Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 So I started the car up this morning no problems. Decided to take it around the block before I left. As soon as I gave the car any load it was smoking super bad. Pulled over and shut it off. I put a clear hose on my v/c to the seperator and at the seperator the oil was litterally pooled up. Pulled the hoses off the seperator and it was FULL of oil. I kept it disconnected to not suck in all the oil and drove it home. When I got home the hose had dumped way more oil than normal, and it was milk coming out of the seperator and on the dipstick. So when I get back ill pulling the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Yep. Number three piston or cracked cylinder head, but it seems like a piston. Have fun rebuilding it if you can, and don't spend any more money than you have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTED88tsi Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Yeah this is the 4th one of these things that has failed undeer my ownership. Not new to this at all haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Yeah this is the 4th one of these things that has failed undeer my ownership. Not new to this at all haha. (12a+20psi)dialy = blown up Edited January 20, 2011 by Scotty Dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTED88tsi Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I don't know where you keep getting this 20psi mark but you're wrong. My base setup which is what it is always at is 14psi . The only time is at off is when someone is looking to have fun. But that doesn't matter anyway cause its done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I don't know where you keep getting this 20psi mark but you're wrong. My base setup which is what it is always at is 14psi . The only time is at off is when someone is looking to have fun. But that doesn't matter anyway cause its done. Ok so what was the most psi you ran on it? And it was knocking right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 a 2.0 4g63 would be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTED88tsi Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Won't be getting another 4 cylinder but now were just getting off topic. The most psi it saw was 20, but I heard pinging so the boost was always kept lowerr from then on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 When you had the boost that high you had the blowby that goes with it. The 12a and the 20psi didn't cause this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I bet 91 octane had something to do with it. It wouldn't have been pinging with some 93 in there. Who knows though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTED88tsi Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Update, pulled head. Headgasket was fine, small markings on number 3 cylinder walls. Pulling motor tomoroww. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 if the rest of the engine is fine why pull the engine,, a single piston and rings can be install'd in a day and back on the road same day , but if you feel the need to inspect the other pistons go ahead and pull the engine ,but eather way some thing is gona have to be done about the over timeing or spark knocking going on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 if the rest of the engine is fine why pull the engine,, a single piston and rings can be install'd in a day and back on the road same day , but if you feel the need to inspect the other pistons go ahead and pull the engine ,but eather way some thing is gona have to be done about the over timeing or spark knocking going on Wow that sounds like bad advice? Why not pull it and inspect everything, we wont know exactly what happened until then anyway but the very least a whole new set of rings and a hone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) You could pull the pan and take the pistons out and leave the block in and all the parts that are attached. This could have been a problem with the head. Marks on cylinder walls can come from crap that blew through the intake valve or a piece of a broken spark plug. Do the plugs look ok and have you looked at the valve seats? If you have been floating the valves that ruins the springs and then the valves wobble in the guides and don't seat properly and your compression is off and combustion pressure and heat blows up around the valve stem and it smokes. Seen it. Too check for this you have to tear the head down and stack the springs up side by side and see if any are leaning. A few bits of burnt carbon or something that blew through the head can land in a cylinder and cause scoring on the cylinder walls. If the spacer ring on the oil control rings wasn't installed properly it can cause scoring. The ends usually butt together but you can overlap them and if you don't watch or double check that ends up causing the oil control rings to not be able to seat. The spring on the right is junk, it will cause the valve stem to wear, the guide to wear, poor compression, crankcase pressure, smoking engine. People say things like oh it needs a ring job or needs the cylinders honed or needs new pistons and it might just be bad valve springs. Reman'd heads use old junk springs and don't tell you, they just media blast them and make they look pretty but they are junk. Your head old or remand' recently? Been at excessive rpms recently before this happened? You have HD valve springs or stock springs? Stock springs won't take much past red line. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM001801.JPG Edited January 25, 2011 by Indiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTED88tsi Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 The plugs look great, no broken anything and all the same color. I have not looked at the valve seats.. The car never gets reved past 5500 as i dont see the point with a 12a, i do want to go with schnieders anyway so looks like it will get pulled apart. The bottom end on the car has never been touched as far as i know stock pistons and had 75k ish on it around 2008. It has a remaned marnal on it, i belive it was bought as a bare head and the previous owner swapped the valves and maybe oem springs into the marnal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 What kind of markings are on the cylinder wall?? Vertical "stripes"?? -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Schneider cams told me to replace valve springs at least every 5 years, if not shorter intervals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Bits of carbon that are around the ring landings can come off and score cylinder walls. What did the pistons look like on top and what did the combustion chambers in the head look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Wow that sounds like bad advice? Why not pull it and inspect everything, we wont know exactly what happened until then anyway but the very least a whole new set of rings and a hone. Scotty you got a problem with me or it just a general dislike for me,, i can no more see his engine then you can,,but after 40 years of hands on experiance i can tell you replaceing a single piston and rod is an except'd way of doing a repair,,esp with all the other cyls with 140 psi, if the comp was 110 lbs sure do them all , if the comp was up and down ,do them all but all are dead on 140 lbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTED88tsi Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 What kind of markings are on the cylinder wall?? Vertical "stripes"?? -RobertSi semor. ill go get a pic in a second. All pistons and combustion chambers on the head look relativley the same. Drivers side of 3http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l150/BOOSTED88TSI/IMG_20110125_121518.jpg Passenger sidehttp://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l150/BOOSTED88TSI/IMG_20110125_121542.jpg Like i said before im pretty sure they're oem springs. I did for get right around the time this started to happen the car hit was felt like a rev limiter at around 4k when in boost. Itd make power, make power and then boom like it hit a wall. But it would only do it when floored, thats a little exagerated and i know the 12a doesnt make power up top at all, but this wasnt attributued to the turbo i belive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) 12a makes power same as any other turbo I still don't know why people keep saying that. They stuck a big16g with a tiny TD04 shaft on a 2.4 dohc srt4 Neon motor and spin the hell out of it and they make power so this 12a TD05 can't make power on a motor that pumps half as much air and can't rev as high is just old tired BS with a tired oil coked up TD05 shaft that's being used and they fail because of that not how much boost they are making. Its because of the sucky intercooler and manifolds not the turbo. Your "wall" just might have been your weak valve springs. Those marks on the cylinder walls looks just like what happens from carbon that falls off then chews it way up and down. Could have been water in that cylinder that let the rings rust too. Its not a busted ring, those chew a big gouge in one spot and don't spin around and eat a hole more in the middle and less on the top and bottom. When the ring breaks the pieces jamb up and don't move around. If its just one ring you might not know it for compression test until the block is ruined. I've got one you can look through the void in the cylinder wall. The piston still comes up towards the top and that motor was still running but it would foul plugs in five minutes and it wasn't making any noises. The carbon can build up on the top of the cylinder at the head then break off and it gets rolled down the wall by the piston. Could have been from a clogged up jet valve at one time that was causing crankcase pressure that blew in oil through what was stuck jet valve. This happened in the motor before that head went on it or it wasn't as bad. This was just a motor not touched and a new head was put on it? That must have been the bad cylinder before. If the scoring is deep enough since its concentrated so much in one spot it looks like you may have to get it bored. It might have been saved if the last time it was apart the pistons would have came out and been cleaned up but its just so much easier to leave things alone and change heads and do BSEK and leave the tired parts in the bottom end then this stuff happens and it costs much more. The rings are good but stuck by carbon in the grooves and that's what needed to be cleaned up. You see that build up on the top of your cylinders? Its also on the top of the piston. That's what made those marks. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000089.JPG I may be wrong but I've seen that many times. At one time it was an oil burner after someone didn't know what a PCV was supposed to be doing then the separator was removed but the carbon was already there by then. People should not be doing things to these motors without rebuilding them. They aren't 3 years old they are 23 years old or more and they are full of crap that needs cleaned out and everyone of them needs completely torn down, cleaned and reassembled before this kind of stuff happens. These are all OLD MOTORS. Edited January 25, 2011 by Indiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 A dead lifter in that cylinder could have caused the compression difference but it may have been those marks being so close together. You haven't taken the head apart yet have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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