Couple Questions re: Flatty Strut Bolt Patterns

[Burabuda]

hi all!

i've got a 1975 colt that i'm in the process of lowering for street and possible light track use

and i've got a few questions re: flatty strut bolt patterns that guys on the old colt forum couldn't answer

 

i seem to recall somebody telling me that flatty struts/brakes were an easy upgrade for early colts

but the pics i've seen show a 2-bolt steering knuckle on the starion vs. a 3-bolt on the old colt. what's up with that?

 

also, can somebody do a quick measurement of the top strut tower bolt pattern?

i'd like to know if it's similar to the old colt, so that i can use the starquest camber plates (nobody makes 'em for old colts)

 

thx!

[shift1313]

if you check out my big brake conversion thread i have tons of pics of the steering/rotor setup. the bolt pattern of the flatty vs widebody is the same for the strut tower.

 

i think i have a cad file of the strut bolt pattern i can look at(at work) but a quick measure for you looks like 4.5625 between studs in a triangle.

 

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/cad/strutbolt.jpg

 

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/BrakeMockUp7.jpg

 

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/brakeconversion1.jpg

 

if you want more specific pictures just let me know. I will be pretty strapped for time early this week but later in the week ill have time to take whatever you need.

[shift1313]

i should also mention that the wide/flatty struts are different but the same. I think the wide body stuff is a little shorter(someone?). the spindle area is the same but the wide body use 5lug stuff with a rotor that goes over the hub. the 4 lug stuff bolts on as shown above. caliper is the same but the caliper bracket is different.

[Burabuda]

i should also mention that the wide/flatty struts are different but the same. I think the wide body stuff is a little shorter(someone?). the spindle area is the same but the wide body use 5lug stuff with a rotor that goes over the hub. the 4 lug stuff bolts on as shown above. caliper is the same but the caliper bracket is different.

 

yeah i read through your thread, but i was hoping to find out about the steering knuckle. wide and flatty use a two bolt i'm guessing?

 

if so, then i need to find me a challenger, because that may have been the last of the rwd using a 3 bolt knuckle but with the larger spindle

 

i'm already moving forward using my original struts, even though the spindle is smaller, because i don't plan on much hard driving

 

btw, the strut tower bolt pattern on my car is 3 7/8" which is obviously too small for the starion camber plate

[shift1313]

here is another thread with some more pics in it.

 

http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=76965

 

when you are asking about the steering knuckle being 2 bolt vs 3 bolt you mean at the bottom of the strut housing? you can see in my last pic the two bolts. were you hoping to bolt that to your lower control arm? Honestly i thought it was 3 bolt but i just dont remember off the top of my head, i thought i had a better pic but couldnt find it. Ill have to crawl under my car tomorrow.

 

there has been rx7 front end swaps, and nissan cross member swaps that may be a possible direction to look into.

[Burabuda]

yeah, i was hoping to bolt the starion strut up, but it looks like that won't be happening

 

no biggy except for now i have to find a car that has the same strut top bolt pattern ... kp61? ... as the old colts, so i can use camber plates

[shift1313]

what about early mazdas? or datsuns?

[Burabuda]

what about early mazdas? or datsuns?

 

cusco makes camber plates to fit dozens of cars, but i just need to get out to the boneyards and start measuring some

(NOBODY seems to be willing or able to help me)

 

oh, and the starion strut issue is still not at rest as there is some debate and confusion as to strut bolt patterns

i'm suprised NOBODY has test fit or compared them, but one guy says he will try

(i may need to check this out for myself as well ...)

[shift1313]

i thought you said your strut mount was a lot smaller pattern? Did you measure those numbers or find them. Anything you want to measure just let me know.

[Burabuda]

i thought you said your strut mount was a lot smaller pattern? Did you measure those numbers or find them. Anything you want to measure just let me know.

 

 

sorry, i didn't mean you (you've been very helpful) but getting somebody who doesn't own an oldschool mitsi to measure their strut tower bolt pattern is a losing cause ...

on the multi-make forums, most guys are still just interested in promoting their brand and ignoring everything else

[shift1313]

sorry, i didn't mean you (you've been very helpful) but getting somebody who doesn't own an oldschool mitsi to measure their strut tower bolt pattern is a losing cause ...

on the multi-make forums, most guys are still just interested in promoting their brand and ignoring everything else

 

 

oh i didnt think you meant me.

 

What cars do you want? Ill ask a few people in the local car club that may either have those cars or know someone who does.

 

Also talk to member Fanta. He was just at an old school car meet and maybe he made a few contacts.

 

i was searching the net looking for some info for you and came across www.datsun510.net. I was searching for strut brace pictures for plym sapporos

 

http://datsun510.com/photopost/data/500/medium/80strut_bar_002.jpg

[Burabuda]

ok, the top bolt pattern on the early colts is ~3 7/8" measured center to center between two studs

datsun 510/ nissan s13 measures at ~4 1/4"

 

must be a 3 bolt stud pattern of course

 

i was thinking maybe a ae86 or kp61 might work seeing they're smaller & old school

i've emailed various ebay sellers as well as the cusco usa distributor but never got a reply

Edited November 6, 2008 by Burabuda

[shift1313]

ill ask around. so at this point you are just looking for something that will bolt into your tower and you will worry about the spindle/control arm later?

 

I dont really have the time to design anything but if you design something you want. ill draw it up so you can take it to a local machine shop and have it made(for a camber plate setup).

Edited November 6, 2008 by shift1313

[GAflatty]

i have an ae86 corolla and will try to measure the bolt pattern for you tomorrow. hopefully that will help you out.

 

you said you measured from the center of one stud to the center of another?

 

i will let you know tomorrow.

Edited November 6, 2008 by GAflatty

[Burabuda]

i have an ae86 corolla and will try to measure the bolt pattern for you tomorrow. hopefully that will help you out.

 

you said you measured from the center of one stud to the center of another?

 

i will let you know tomorrow.

 

right, there are three studs; just measure the length between two of them, center to center

 

as far as roll center shims or bump steer spacers, i'm out of luck unless i can get a cad person interested

the local machine shop wants a minimum order of 12 sets, and there just ain't that many old school mitsi people around who are interested in or worried about suspension geometry

[shift1313]

well i am a cad person and im pretty busy but like i said if you draw up roughly what you want i can draw it up in no time. My local machine shop where i have stuff water jetted has a min order of $150 for the water jet. If you are talking about spacers and things that are only 2d this would work out. If you are talking about camber plates which would require some additional machining for strut clearance and pillow ball mount the price might get up there.

[Burabuda]

well i am a cad person and im pretty busy but like i said if you draw up roughly what you want i can draw it up in no time. My local machine shop where i have stuff water jetted has a min order of $150 for the water jet. If you are talking about spacers and things that are only 2d this would work out. If you are talking about camber plates which would require some additional machining for strut clearance and pillow ball mount the price might get up there.

 

if we had a dozen diehards, i'd say let's try to do camber plates, but we don't so let's stick with the bumpsteer spacers

i'm guessing you'll need a steering knuckle to work with? i'll check around to see if somebody has an extra they'll donate to the cause

 

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/beefkake25/colt/CIMG3082.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/beefkake25/colt/CIMG3083.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/beefkake25/colt/CIMG3086.jpg

 

rough measurements: 8cm from bolt center to bolt center (bolt holes are 1cm)

4 cm center hole (only matters if we employ a centering ring for the strut tube, or use two side dowls)

a couple holes to match the centering dowls

on the strut tube side, it looks a bit tight/thin, but there's a bit more room to make the spacer a little thicker in the wall

 

pm me your contact info, and i'll get it to you asap

oh yeah, make it 1"

here's t3's datsun bump steer spacer for comparison:

http://www.technotoytuning.com/media/t3/products/rca2.jpg

[shift1313]

alright matt i drew these up real quick

 

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/cad/75coltBumpSteer.jpg

 

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/cad/75ColtBumpSteer3d-Model.jpg

 

depending on how you want to go about this im going to need some numbers. I based everything off the bottom left hole. if you want to measure some other way thats fine. I need a location of the center hole, location of the dowel pins and size, and i need to make sure the 3-bolt hole pattern is symmetrical. We can do this several ways. If you want to take a pencil rubbing of one of the two parts and scan it into the computer it will be 1:1(i do this all the time with reverse engineering parts). You can place the part on a scanner or photo copier and do the same thing. That is if you dont feel comfortable with the measurments.

[GAflatty]

i took measurements today of the strut tower top mounting bolts on my corolla and the best i can tell it is somewhere between 4 5/16 and 4 3/8 center to center if you need me to try and get a better measurement i will do so tomorrow at work. but it doesn't look like it will fit you 3 7/8 bolt pattern. lmk if there is anything else you would like me to look at for ya on my corolla.

[Burabuda]

http://i33.tinypic.com/dh7ebt.jpg

 

ok, here's the pencil rubbing. scale was 100% (bolt holes are 1cm to confirm)

 

btw, the "jagged" side sits up against the strut, but the thickness on that side of the spacer can be up to 3/8" from center edge

 

i can borrow a mic from work tomorrow and measure the dowl thickness

if we go with replicating the dowels, then we really won't need a raised center ring

[shift1313]

wow you work fast, i leave for a few hours:) I enjoy the fact that you measure the holes metric but us US units for the rest:)

 

I agree if we use the dowels we can do away with the raised lip which will keep this thing 2d and able to be waterjetted(except the dowel holes). Waterjetting is material plus cut time, so if we didnt use the center hole i can just leave it solid. material cost would be the same(because they charge you for it anyways) but cut time would be less.

 

let me import that drawing real quick and draw something up.

[shift1313]

okay slight issue. 8cm is 3.1496", 1cm is .3937". When i scaled your drawing up 3.875 times i get the hole diameter to about the right number(just for reference purposes), but you can see from the drawing that the distance between holes is a lot less than 8cm. Its actually closer to 6.3cm.

 

 

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/maperez/BumpSteer.bmp

 

 

is there anyway your 8cm measurement could be that far off? 6.3cm is about 2.5"

[shift1313]

this laptop im on now is so horribly slow i cant take it. Here is the rough drawing to scale with your drawing. If you can get accurate measures on the dowel diameter and location and bolt holes we can go from there. Even though this pencil rubbing was scaled down it should still be right, i just need something concrete to scale it to.

 

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/cad/75ColtLCASpacer-Model.jpg

[Burabuda]

now i'm lost ... what 8cm do you mean?

 

please indicate on the last image what measurements you need, and i'll let the guy with the mic do the measuring tomorrow (i'm just the idea man)

 

re: camber plates, the kp61 seems to be the closest bolt pattern, maybe just a hair off

fortunately, cusco makes that application

 

and to turn on another burner, can anybody point me to a shop that can make a custom front sway bar for me?

Edited November 7, 2008 by Burabuda

[shift1313]

click on this link

 

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/maperez/BumpSteer.bmp

 

i couldnt post it as an image since this old laptop will only save bmp files from paintbrush:)

 

On the other page you said the holes for the bolts were roughly 8cm apart and that each hole was 1cm. On that .bmp you can see the overlay of your pencil rubbing and the two holes 8cm(3.14") apart. I scaled the drawing up so the bolt holes were about 1cm.

 

the measurements i need are the ones posted on the first page drawing shown below.

 

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/cad/75ColtBumpSteer3d-Model.jpg

 

only since we are leaving the large center hole out that doesnt really matter anymore. Just a reference for the 3 bolt holes and the two dowels from where ever he can measure them from. I just want to make sure the location of these holes is right on. I figured this way would be easier than you looking for a spare part and shipping it across the country:)

 

once we get the number nailed down i can send the file off to the local machine shop for waterjet quote to see how many of these things you would get for that min price i told you. My guess would be 5 or 6 of them(just a guess though).