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Fidanza LT1 flywheel for Bills T56 bellhousing

AustinTSI

By AustinTSI,
in Transmission Swaps

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AustinTSI Newbie

AustinTSI

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I talked to Fidanza today and confirmed that they will make another run of the Starion LT1 flywheel if they can get 5-6 orders. This is basically a Starion flywheel drilled and cut to run the larger LT1 pressure plates which gives a lot more holding power.

 

I also have talked to a vendor that is checking into setting up a group purchase of the flywheel for less than $300 delivered. So if you are considering Bill's bellhousing then you might want to consider this flywheel also.

 

If you are interested in the Group Buy then add your name so we can get an idea of how many people there are:

 

1. AustinTSI

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4.

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AustinTSI Newbie

AustinTSI

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He is building it for the stock flywheel and clutch. The bellhousing will be made to work with either the LT1 or the LS1 trans. The difference is this: the correct LT1 requires little to no additional work on the trans tunnel in a manual transmission car. The LS1 requires a lot of tunnel work; some poeple even cut the tunnel out and build a new one.

 

The LT1 uses a 11-5/8" diameter bolt pattern on the flywheel for the pressure plate. The LS1 uses a 12-5/8" bolt pattern. The stock Starion flywheel is NOT large enough for a LS1 bolt pattern. The stock Fidanza (CON1) that I just measured is only 11-1/2" across so I'm not even 100% sure the Fidanza LT1 Starion flyweel (CON2) will fit but I know someone that has one so I'm going to try and get him to send it to Bill to make sure.

 

Here are some points that were previously brought up about the benefits of the LT1 clutch/flywheel over the stock one.

1. the friction surface is much larger so it is capable of holding more HP/torque

2. the selection is much larger

3. the HP limits are much higher without having to use 4 or 6 puck friction disks

4. 6 and 4 puck disks require higher pedal pressures

5. you can pick up a LT1 clutch at most autostores.

6. the LT1 clutch was designed to move a car weighing 30% more than the Starion

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383chevelle Newbie

383chevelle

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I wonder why the ls1 trans requires so much modification to the trans tunnel, the cases are the same between the two. Has anyone actually mounted a ls1 trans behind a g54b that is in the stock mounts to know for sure how much modification is needed. I thought the only thing that the ls1 trans has been used in is swaped cars.
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AustinTSI Newbie

AustinTSI

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The trans are not all the same in size even though you would think so. The swaps have always been with different motors but the only thing that is important is when you line up the trans shifter with the hole in the trans tunnel, does the trans fit; and the answer has been no every time.
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383chevelle Newbie

383chevelle

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I think the main case where all the gears are is the same size. Where you run into differences is the tail shaft housing are different sizes. I am trying to find dimensions for the height and width of the lt1 vs. the ls1. If all else fails I have both at the house and Ill measure them. My understanding from all the posts I have read about it is the ls1 doesn't fit because it is set about an inch further back then the lt1 trans. I guess the trans tunner is tapered and that sets the trans into this taper to far. Oh just as a side note I think the bell housing bolt pattern on the front plate of the lt1 trans is different then the bell housing bolt pattern on the ls1.

 

Sorry for all the talk just try to get my head wrapped around all this. I am trying to figure out if I should convert my lt1 trans over to ls1 spec input shaft and front plate.

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383chevelle Newbie

383chevelle

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I have seen this measurements before. I am looking for all the other dimensions. The extra length on the ls1 comes from the bell housing being longer. I measured both transmissions at my house and they are the same height and width. So the only difference is the bell housing length. The lt1 trans fits so nicely with chads kit because it was sitting over an 1" forward in the tunnel.That being said since Bill's bell housing is made for the longer input shaft it is going to have the same problems no matter the version of trans you use with it. It will set even the lt1 trans back in the tunnel enough that it wont fit without some work.
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AustinTSI Newbie

AustinTSI

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That is interesting. That may really make the difference as to whether I get him to set it up as the LT1 or not. I think he trims the housing length for the LT1 since he said that you can use the LT1 stock without have to change the input shaft.
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creakyjoints Newbie

creakyjoints

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You also might want to know that even though there are different manufacturers of clutches for the lt1 they all use the same pressure plate. It is made in China out of cast aluminum. Not sure if MotoCam360 still has video posted on the web or not of one exploding.
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AustinTSI Newbie

AustinTSI

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I found one of these flywheels so I'm having it sent to Bill. I talked to him and he is going to check it for fitment with his T56 and Conquest body. He said he may even take this time to do the tail housing mount and the engine mounts.
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EVOMINUS Newbie

EVOMINUS

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FINALLY!!!!!!!I have asked the fittment issue with the trans tunnel so many times i can't even remember anymore but noone answered.....all the t56 swaps had the tunnel severely cut and its something i really DON'T want to with my car...and now if the lt1 fits it would be a game changer.

I am pretty sure though from bill's pictures that he has manufactured the bellhousings in 2 different lengths so maybe the one is for the lt trans?

If you can inlighten me-because i am not from the US-in what cars can an lt1 trans found and is is it as strong as an LS1 or even ar the guts interchangable?

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AustinTSI Newbie

AustinTSI

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The 93-97 pontiac firebird is the best choice for the LT1 as people have said that it does fit with very little modification and it places the shifter in the correct spot. Check the PDF above for the dimensions on various models. Nothing I have found covers other dimensions though like height or width.

 

Here is some body dimensions I have gotten though.

 

* T56 Bell housing is 5.5" thick from mounting surface to mounting surface

* T56 without bell housing, mounting surface to shifter is 23.4"

* engine block to middle of shifter is 28.9"

* firewall to shifter opening is 21"

* shifter opening is 7.5"

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STARION_NORTH Newbie

STARION_NORTH

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The LT1 clutch is a "pull" type, our cars use a "push" type (as does the LS1), how would you make this work with Bill's housing? The slave cylinder will be pointing the wrong direction. Chad's kit needed an LT1 clutch because it used an LT1 bellhousing. The "pull" type clutch is much shorter in height compared to a "push" style which allows the LT1 trans to have the shorter input shaft; in turn this allows the entire trans assembly to mount further ahead in the car (fitting into a starquest tunnel better). Edited by STARION_NORTH
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AustinTSI Newbie

AustinTSI

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Bill said he doesn't like the Starion clutch setup anyways so we are going to switch to a hydraulic release bearing. As for the fitment if he makes engine mounts then he can make them so that it fits the shifter in the correct spot which would then fit the trans in the correct spot so that only slight modifications to the tunnel might be necessary. Plus, pushing the engine forward 1" would give a little more room behind the engine for the water outlet for those that don't want to do the front water outlet.
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AustinTSI Newbie

AustinTSI

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Honestly I don't know anything about how the clutch fork and/or release bearing works. I understand the friction surfaces and the flywheel and that is it other than the basic concept of the pressure plate and push vs. pull.

 

What I do know is that I trust Bill to get me what I want and that is a bellhousing that results in little to no tunnel work and an internal hydraulic release bearing.

 

I already have the Fidanza CON1 flywheel (Starion standard) and will soon have the CON2 (Starion LT1). My issue is that I'm trying to find the least expensive, most commonly available clutch that will be capable of handling 600-700 HP without having outrageous pedal pressure.

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383chevelle Newbie

383chevelle

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If your going to be running an hydraulic release bearing you will not be running a lt1 clutch I don't think. The lt1 clutch is a pull clutch and i don't think they make pull type hydraulic throw out bearings. You might want to hold off on buying that other flywheel till you know what you will need for sure.
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  • 4 weeks later...
TsTKl Newbie

TsTKl

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Hey Guys,

 

I didn't take the time to read this entire thread because I've seen it a million times. Here are some facts I've collected on the subject:

 

1. The ONLY LT1 or LS1 swaps I have seen that didn't involve cutting the transmission tunnel had the engine significantly lower in the engine bay than what is found from the factory.

 

2. The automatic transmission chassis have larger transmissions, and thus larger transmission tunnels, so certain applications where an auto car was used can unknowingly "skew" results.

 

3. The oem transmission is not tapered past the bell housing whatsoever, and the oem tunnel reflects this. Similarly, the ls1/lt1 transmission is not tapered, only the bell housing is. Moving the transmission forward an inch wouldn't do s*** to allow it to fit better. It still wouldn't fit. Period. Moving it DOWN an inch would help a ton.

 

4. The lt1 bell housing is an inch shorter. The bolt pattern is also offset about 17 degrees from the ls1 transmission. I have the second bell housing from Bill I believe. It was designed for an lt1 and then elongated for my transmission. The transmission mount doesn't line up with the body of the car and the shifter is pointed away from the driver. I will be getting a new version from bill once I have the money and confirm with bill that the changes I need have been made. (lack of time and funds on my part as it sounds like Bill has finished this project)

 

5. I am extremely sick and tired of hearing people say that these things fit in these cars. They don't. Honestly it cost me over 1000 dollars in logistical f*** ups listening to people over the internet saying it would fit, only to find out at a very very inopportune time (I was moving) that it doesn't and the couple days I had budgeted for putting this car together and shipping it wasn't going to work out. STOP SAYING SOMETHING WORKS UNTIL YOU TRY IT.

 

All that being said I do appreciate that people are trying to "pave the way" for others.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
Bill Hincher Newbie

Bill Hincher

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here is whats going on, the new T 56 housings accept either the short shaft or the long shaft Trans

 

http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56EVO%20and%20narrow%20block/T56narrowblock1.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56EVO%20and%20narrow%20block/T56narrowblock2.jpg

 

http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56EVO%20and%20narrow%20block/T56narrowblock3.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56EVO%20and%20narrow%20block/T56narrowblock4.jpg

http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56EVO%20and%20narrow%20block/T56narrowblock5.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56EVO%20and%20narrow%20block/T56narrowblock6.jpg

http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56EVO%20and%20narrow%20block/T56narrowblock7.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56EVO%20and%20narrow%20block/T56narrowblock8.jpg

http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56EVO%20and%20narrow%20block/T56narrowblock9.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56EVO%20and%20narrow%20block/T56narrowblock10.jpg

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