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Fidanza LT1 flywheel for Bills T56 bellhousing


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#21 TsTKl

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 04:39 PM

Hey Guys,

I didn't take the time to read this entire thread because I've seen it a million times. Here are some facts I've collected on the subject:

1. The ONLY LT1 or LS1 swaps I have seen that didn't involve cutting the transmission tunnel had the engine significantly lower in the engine bay than what is found from the factory.

2. The automatic transmission chassis have larger transmissions, and thus larger transmission tunnels, so certain applications where an auto car was used can unknowingly "skew" results.

3. The oem transmission is not tapered past the bell housing whatsoever, and the oem tunnel reflects this. Similarly, the ls1/lt1 transmission is not tapered, only the bell housing is. Moving the transmission forward an inch wouldn't do s*** to allow it to fit better. It still wouldn't fit. Period. Moving it DOWN an inch would help a  ton.

4. The lt1 bell housing is an inch shorter. The bolt pattern is also offset about 17 degrees from the ls1 transmission. I have the second bell housing from Bill I believe. It was designed for an lt1 and then elongated for my transmission. The transmission mount doesn't line up with the body of the car and the shifter is pointed away from the driver. I will be getting a new version from bill once I have the money and confirm with bill that the changes I need have been made. (lack of time and funds on my part as it sounds like Bill has finished this project)

5. I am extremely sick and tired of hearing people say that these things fit in these cars. They don't. Honestly it cost me over 1000 dollars in logistical f*** ups listening to people over the internet saying it would fit, only to find out at a very very inopportune time (I was moving) that it doesn't and the couple days I had budgeted for putting this car together and shipping it wasn't going to work out. STOP SAYING SOMETHING WORKS UNTIL YOU TRY IT.

All that being said I do appreciate that people are trying to "pave the way" for others.
proof it did run at one point...
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#22 Guest_STARION_NORTH_*

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 10:32 PM

So how is this project coming?

#23 AustinTSI

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 09:28 AM

Waiting on Bill as he is swamped with other things. I will contact him today or tomorrow when I get a chance.

#24 Bill Hincher

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 02:12 PM

here is whats going on, the new T 56 housings accept either the short shaft or the long shaft Trans

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#25 creakyjoints

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 08:38 PM

I assume it will not work with the flywheel made for chads adapter plate?
the dude in the honda said, i thought you said your car was slow, my response was.. well you said yours was fast so i guess we both lied.. haha

#26 Bill Hincher

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:45 PM

I apologize for being late I do have the flywheel here, I do intend to get it involved, and I will be with is shortly, its been crazy
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#27 creakyjoints

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 05:20 PM

That's great! The Chevy clutch is so much better than what is available for the Mitsu. The one I have will hold 800ft lbs and feels like a stock Mitsu clutch.

Edited by creakyjoints, 17 May 2014 - 05:22 PM.

the dude in the honda said, i thought you said your car was slow, my response was.. well you said yours was fast so i guess we both lied.. haha

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 09:56 AM

So what is happening with this project?

#29 AustinTSI

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 01:30 PM

I just talked to Bill and he is going to get this finished one way or the other in the next few days.

#30 noob87tsi

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 12:54 PM

Update?

#31 creakyjoints

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:37 PM

Kind of curious myself.
the dude in the honda said, i thought you said your car was slow, my response was.. well you said yours was fast so i guess we both lied.. haha

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 10:12 AM

I'm not holding my breath :(

#33 AustinTSI

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 06:15 PM

I talked to bill and his bell housing will NOT fit the larger flywheel. BUT, he can/will make the housing work with a 4g63 AWD clutch/flywheel which is what he is fabbing up for me right now along with the motor mounts and T56 mounts.

#34 creakyjoints

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 07:54 PM

That's not a bad option. Off the shelf twin disk would work. Little noisy with clutch in but light pedal feel.
the dude in the honda said, i thought you said your car was slow, my response was.. well you said yours was fast so i guess we both lied.. haha

#35 DSM-STARION

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:01 PM

How big is that 4g63 AWD flywheel vs the 240mm StarQuest flywheel I will definitely like the T56 set up. Looking forward to see that happen

#36 mstieg

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 10:16 PM

Guys - I've got the same LT1 T56 in mine right now.  DONE.  Just finishing up some wiring and other setup issues to get it on the road.

Most of the info here is correct, but some is not.

After a LOT of searching I did end up with a CHAD kit, however it needed quite a bit of re-working to fit, including added depth to the adapter plate.  As such, I had a spacer plate made by my CNC guy to add to Chad's plate, which also needed some different holes/a few opened up to fit properly.  Using the same Fidanza LT1 flywheel "CON2" with one of the many ebay LT1 clutches (all same basic pressure plate and proven in thousands of cars with more HP & 30% more weight than ours).

My guy re-fabbed the mount for the trans AND reworked the slave mount, which does flip it to work with the pull style clutch.

I put a TON of research into this swap before picking up this trans including attempts to get a custom bell made by Bill for this Fidanza and trans, which is different than the LS1.  At the time he was busy and preferred the stock SQ clutch setup over LT1 clutch & Fidanza fly for safety concerns regardless of which trans he adapted for.  We didn't have the numbers to support fabbing up a bell for just me at the time.


Great thing with this swap per other threads, many old, some with updates over the last few years:
- LT1 fits with minimal tunnel work needed - shifter fits right up
- LT1 clutch = bigger surface area but same diameter flywheel so starter still bolts up to adapter plate without other mods
- LT1 clutch = much cheaper and far more available than duel disk SQ clutch
- SQ stock master & slave is used.  No swapping needed there.
- DO need a custom driveshaft, but that's cheap enough if taking this on.  Req'd with any swap so really a non-factor.
- Gear ratios work perfectly if able to swap in 4.22s.
- trans has tons of aftermarket support
- stock clutch pedal feel vs. the previous ACT Xtreme clutch from before.  I can't speak of the dual disk clutch feel.

I've offered to share in this swap several times and never got a response.  Granted mine's been a long-time work in progress so having a credible proven product is needed.  Pending my success, if you guys gather enough interest, I could get one-off adapter plates made from our CNC design.  Copies of the trans mount and slave mount would be needed unless you get your own made.

Edited by mstieg, 20 June 2015 - 10:21 PM.

Before: 352 rwhp @15psi; MPI: SDS EM5F; Chad intake & equal length header; S256 turbo (56/80comp-64/74ex); 48" of 2.5" IC piping
Now Done:  7.5:1 .35 Wiseco rebuild w/ crank scraper; 274 Magna roller cam & 1.55 rockers; mod port AMC head; 1mm>valves; Innovate WB; GM alt/rewired; 3" 240 alum radiator, elec fans; BMW X5 oil separator exh. crankcase vent; gas tank renewed; D2s; sway/strut bars; LT1 T56 clutch & trans swap w/ Fidanza; 4.22 rear; 265 Kumos on SHP rears; new steering pump/box/lines & coupler fix: http://www.starquest...howtopic=139558; full dash/console rewire - Autometer, push start, etc.
In Progress: breakin & tune
Future: Enjoy driving again; meets & local shows; AC; WG reroute from open vent to exh; Water/Meth?; body/paint

FOR SALE:  Rear Camber plates (basic); NIB beefy U-joints(2); etc.see-->  http://www.starquest...howtopic=133262 Custom 5 gauge overlay panel: http://www.starquest...pic=136703&st=0

#37 mstieg

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 10:49 PM

My comments are added in BOLD BLUE and included in the quote for simplicity

 TsTKl, on 20 April 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

Hey Guys,

I didn't take the time to read this entire thread because I've seen it a million times. Here are some facts I've collected on the subject: Thanks - I had to look up your swap and edit this because you should have read this thread before posting.  Your swap experience is very different than what we're talking about.

Yours:  http://www.starquest...howtopic=123056

Mine:  http://www.starquest...pic=123759&st=0


1. The ONLY LT1 or LS1 swaps I have seen that didn't involve cutting the transmission tunnel had the engine significantly lower in the engine bay than what is found from the factory.
You probably have not seen this swap work because it's rare, but the claims are true.  What causes confusion is which T56 is being discussed.  The one I'm using that Austin and Chad's old threads & kit refer to DOES FIT.  It's in my car right now and only needed some hammering on passenger side to open up about an inch more tunnel clearance.

Per Austin's post, mine is a 97 Camero/Trans AM 350" LT1 T56 # 1386-000-016.

Yours is a different trans and diff. engine.  You went with a 4g63 not 2.6.  Also on an LS1 T56, not LT1 T56.  

2. The automatic transmission chassis have larger transmissions, and thus larger transmission tunnels, so certain applications where an auto car was used can unknowingly "skew" results.
True, Autos have bigger tunnels.  Mine is a non-molested 5 speed 87 car and still has the 2.6 G54b engine.  

3. The oem transmission is not tapered past the bell housing whatsoever, and the oem tunnel reflects this. Similarly, the ls1/lt1 transmission is not tapered, only the bell housing is. Moving the transmission forward an inch wouldn't do s*** to allow it to fit better. It still wouldn't fit. Period. Moving it DOWN an inch would help a  ton.
Maybe some pics from mine would help put all at ease that the LT1 with custom Fidanza does fit.  I'll be at the shop on Mon or Tues. and can get more pics.  

You cannot refer to LS1/LT1 trans.  They are different, with different bells, shape, and fit.  This is why there is confusion here.  Yes, some slight angle and slight turn is needed to fit mine.  I'm still using stock SQ engine mounts including Phil's Funklock, but some modding was needed to these mounts to allow for this.  

4. The lt1 bell housing is an inch shorter. The bolt pattern is also offset about 17 degrees from the ls1 transmission. I have the second bell housing from Bill I believe. It was designed for an lt1 and then elongated for my transmission. The transmission mount doesn't line up with the body of the car and the shifter is pointed away from the driver. I will be getting a new version from bill once I have the money and confirm with bill that the changes I need have been made. (lack of time and funds on my part as it sounds like Bill has finished this project)
Already said.  You mean LS1.

5. I am extremely sick and tired of hearing people say that these things fit in these cars. They don't. Honestly it cost me over 1000 dollars in logistical f*** ups listening to people over the internet saying it would fit, only to find out at a very very inopportune time (I was moving) that it doesn't and the couple days I had budgeted for putting this car together and shipping it wasn't going to work out. STOP SAYING SOMETHING WORKS UNTIL YOU TRY IT.
I'm sorry to hear it didn't work on your end much less at that expense.  It seems that clarification was/is needed as well as clarifying what it takes for your swap.  

I can say that even with the same trans as me it WON'T fit with Bill's bell which for you was correctly made for the 4g, LS1, and stock SQ fly & clutch.  

Again, several variables in your swap are very different than mine and what Austin is referring to...sorry, but this is one instance where you should have read the entire thread before posting about being upset & posting wrong info based on assumptions.


All that being said I do appreciate that people are trying to "pave the way" for others.
=)Agreed!!  Despite all this, it is good news that it's working.  I'm happy to help avoid the PITA I went through to reinvent Chad's project with was proven, but only on 4-5 cars and long ago with the exception of David (Kawika)'s 500hp car now belonging to Riko (Creakyjoints).

Edited by mstieg, 07 July 2015 - 06:24 PM.

Before: 352 rwhp @15psi; MPI: SDS EM5F; Chad intake & equal length header; S256 turbo (56/80comp-64/74ex); 48" of 2.5" IC piping
Now Done:  7.5:1 .35 Wiseco rebuild w/ crank scraper; 274 Magna roller cam & 1.55 rockers; mod port AMC head; 1mm>valves; Innovate WB; GM alt/rewired; 3" 240 alum radiator, elec fans; BMW X5 oil separator exh. crankcase vent; gas tank renewed; D2s; sway/strut bars; LT1 T56 clutch & trans swap w/ Fidanza; 4.22 rear; 265 Kumos on SHP rears; new steering pump/box/lines & coupler fix: http://www.starquest...howtopic=139558; full dash/console rewire - Autometer, push start, etc.
In Progress: breakin & tune
Future: Enjoy driving again; meets & local shows; AC; WG reroute from open vent to exh; Water/Meth?; body/paint

FOR SALE:  Rear Camber plates (basic); NIB beefy U-joints(2); etc.see-->  http://www.starquest...howtopic=133262 Custom 5 gauge overlay panel: http://www.starquest...pic=136703&st=0

#38 GINASQ

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 01:05 PM

I see there's lots of variables, engines, lt or ls t56, and what kit is being used.

So...what's the fitment like in a manual transmission SQ for:

4g63 (DSM) + LT T56 + Bill kit

VS

4g54b + LT T56 + Bill kit

Edited by GINASQ, 06 July 2015 - 09:05 AM.

-James

#39 EVOMINUS

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 05:47 AM

I have read and read and read again and again and things are surely very confusing and you can easily get to wrong answers and conclusions
There are 4g63's and there 4g63's..don't get confused.
There is the 6 bolt 4g63 that bolts right up with our km132 trans and can be found i older 2.0 ltr rwd cars or the euro spec starions and there are the 6bolt 4g63 which are used in the dsm's.In the first case when we are talking about a kit for the 4g63,its like we are talking about the 4g54 kit.Everything is the same.Starter,trans mount,slave master cylinders and although there are two different clutch kits (225 and 240mm) the flywheels diameter is exactly the same.With the help from a machine shop you can fit either clutch.
Now when it comes to the awd or fwd dsm 4g63 platform,neither the awd nor the fwd flywheel are the same and although they bolt right in (in the crank that is) ,
the starter will not reach so it will not be able to turn  the engine(always talking for the km132 stock bolting place).
Surely there are many twin and triple disks set ups for the awd or the fwd 4g63's but their flywhhel doesn't fit.You must machine yours or built a new one from scratch (the machine shop that is) but the costs are going to be very big
Also dont forget that every engine is balanced with its own flywheel-disk set up and when you go and change everything up(flywheels,no of disks,pressure plates etc),you mess with the balance of the rotation assembly.It would be a wise idea when you finish with your mock ups and see that everything works,that you atleast balance the flywheel with the pressure plate bolted on (the disks are not part of the rotation assembly but of the trans) since having the engine torned down woult be a new painfull and costly experience.
So we must be more precise which parts we are reffering too
I have also spent thousands and lost days and days back and forth,listening to people in the web only to find out the hard way that it was all crap..
The only r&d i trust is mine.But that came from alot of work and even more mistakes

Edited by EVOMINUS, 05 July 2015 - 05:48 AM.


#40 mstieg

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 02:35 PM

 GINASQ, on 04 July 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

I see there's lots of variables, engines, lt or ls t56, and what kit is being used.

So...what's the fitment like in a manual transmission SQ for:

4g63 (DSM) + LT T56 + Bill kit

VS

4g54b + LT T56 + Bill kit

4 Variables that each differ:  All 4 must match or you'll have probs.

1) Engine:  4g63 (DSM)  vs. 4g54b (stock SQ 2.6)
2) T-56:  LS1 or LT1, also vary depending on years
3) Flywheel & clutch
4) Kit:  Bill's (meant for 4g63 - I think?, LS1, SQ fly & clutch) vs. My 1-off of Chad's design (4g54b, LT1 T56, custom T56 Fidanza)
Before: 352 rwhp @15psi; MPI: SDS EM5F; Chad intake & equal length header; S256 turbo (56/80comp-64/74ex); 48" of 2.5" IC piping
Now Done:  7.5:1 .35 Wiseco rebuild w/ crank scraper; 274 Magna roller cam & 1.55 rockers; mod port AMC head; 1mm>valves; Innovate WB; GM alt/rewired; 3" 240 alum radiator, elec fans; BMW X5 oil separator exh. crankcase vent; gas tank renewed; D2s; sway/strut bars; LT1 T56 clutch & trans swap w/ Fidanza; 4.22 rear; 265 Kumos on SHP rears; new steering pump/box/lines & coupler fix: http://www.starquest...howtopic=139558; full dash/console rewire - Autometer, push start, etc.
In Progress: breakin & tune
Future: Enjoy driving again; meets & local shows; AC; WG reroute from open vent to exh; Water/Meth?; body/paint

FOR SALE:  Rear Camber plates (basic); NIB beefy U-joints(2); etc.see-->  http://www.starquest...howtopic=133262 Custom 5 gauge overlay panel: http://www.starquest...pic=136703&st=0




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