Chad

Uhm... zero times: indeed, the system can be used for two different purposes, but it is in fact, one system. complaining about launch control is complaining about traction control. if you took launch control out of my wifes hybrid car, the traction control would be rendered virtualy useless, and it would be undrivable in inclement weather from a dead stop or when accelerating out of a corner.

Find the word "launch control" on the nissan website. It's not there. nissan doesnt' sell or market launch control. they do sell a traction control system that has a racing setting. is that the evil you detest? cars that have launch control also have traction control, its a marketing ploy. It's like saying your new car comes wtih tires too.

LOL, this is too ironic. you link the new GTR and it's launch control, when I pointed out a few posts ago the GTR does NOT have launch control, it has traction control, with various settings. here is that post again, please go read it. If I launch the car and it slips at 5K, or just at idle, it does not matter, the launch control works the same: it is a function of the traction control system. they used the same parts, same computer, same physics. only difference is driver intent. Don't blame the technology, blame the driver for abusing a safety feature.

I approve of this message.

So you are saying when my traction control in my wifes car functions as launch control from a stop sign in icy conditions, that I'm racing, and my car has become a race car? Does that mean at that point I've become lazy and disconencted, and intrinsicaly unsafe? Traction control is launch control, plus a few other things. you can't take the launch control out of the traction control in modern cars, they have both. traction control woudl not work, and would not be safe without launch control, that's one of it's primary functions. So besides the 2001/2002 WS6 transam, how many cars had just launch control from the factory? you are making a point that is inadequatly formed. Trying to separate two things that do not separate, and arguing the purpose of a function within another larger feature that has great purpose = launch control is safer, race car or not.

Was that a stock option? the LS production ended in 2002, I though we were talking about new cars.

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-performance-car/features-specs/ the new camaro has both. they kind of go hand in hand, don't they?

the Nissan GTR uses traction control, is that one of the cars you were thinking of? It has different settings, but it's, specified, sold, and designed as traction control. http://www.nissanusa.com/gt-r/specifications.html

so what cars have launch control alone, wherein there is no traction control? there must be a big list to support your theory. If it exists, show us so you can be right and your theory can be proven.

Thanks, I now have a new signature

launch control was brought to new cars for taking off on ice, you know that right? The fact that it makes taking off at a track more adventagious, well that's just a bonus. it was frist brought to non-sports cars. My wife drives an altima hybrid, has 200 front weel HP. the electric motor makes instant torque. Without traction control, the car is difficult to take off briskly from a dead stop on wet roads, it will just spin. Traction control = good. traction control = safe.

Having owned 3 of the 12 DOHC heads, and the only complete motor in existance, I can assure you, the timing looked not unlike what you see above. It's more than just casting a chunk of aluminum with more valves in it . It's not goign to happen till I strike it rich and need to burn some $$ for a write-off, and even then it probably won't happen.

you see advancement as bad, we see it as good. Advancement doesn't mean less skill is present in the driver, it means they are not overwhelemed with stuff that can be done by an onboard computer. The driver wtill has to make all the important decisions. Did you know the F117 stealth fighter can't be flown by any pilot alone, that the computers must be present to maintain flight stability? the shape of that aircraft is so unstable that it requires thousands of computer aided adjustments keep it on the intended path. the pilot still makes all the decisiosn though, about where, how high/low, and how fast the aircraft goes. You think their job is "easy"? Even with all that technology, there is still skill required to fly that aircraft. It can still be flown into a scenerio where the computer won't be able to save it, it can still very easily be crashed. the advancments in new cars allows us to push the limits further, and safer. Without them, we'd still be driving model-T's.

we need to go back to these days, no brake assist, traction control, or parking assist. http://www.dragzine.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/2011/02/Hemidragsterandbubbledragsterleavingstartingline-1.jpg and then daily drive them so we don't become lazy or have our sensed dulled.

those wheelie bars are killing drag racing. Without them the race would be much more about the drvier skill, and less about the clutch. we should petition NHRA to get rid of them. they are just like traction control, and should be abolished immediatly. That and the automatic parallel parking thing on 1/4 mile racers, that's just dumbing down the driver when he pits, and makes him a bad driver on the street for sure. Make that SOB park the car himself. It will earn respect from his team, and strengthen his arms so he can control the car better. Then we can go after the parachute BS, no way they really need that stuff. Nothing but breaking assist for the driver, so he can be even more lazy. The should have to take that corner at the end of the strip at full speed and prove themselves as "real" drivers. I see where you are going wtih this topic now, I was totaly wrong in the beginning. I appoligize.

I don't condone driving the car at all, said that in the beginning. You feel the need to "prove it on the road with boost" I say if you must prove it, no need to booost the crap out of it while you are at it.

Speculating? I've done it. I have the stock gage and an autometer hooked up to the same port with a "T" fitting. The stock gage sucks balls for accuracy and rate of change. You are speculating that the stock gage is accurate and responsive. It is neither. I am not the only one that knows this fact. So you don't have any roads where you live? you can't make your car run 6000 RPM's with no boost? Fine, try it at 4000 RPM's. Slowly get up to speed, say 30 in 1st then let off the gas completely. won't take any boost to get there, and has conciderable vacuum once you let off the throttle. Youl'll have full RPM's and never seen boost,and full oil pressure will have been acchieved for the test. Try it before you knock it. Doing this puts almost zero load on the motor/bearings. What is the load on the beairng at +11PSi vs -14? almost tripple? there isn't much more than a half inch between the pickup and pan, if it was crushed a half inch, I'd say it's a bad idea to start boosting to "try it out".

Cause you'll be looking back at this 50 years from now complaining when they convert all cars to voice navigation, pineing for the days of triptronic transmissions, traction control, and steering wheels.

wouldn't runnign at higher RPM's off-boost make more sense? There is far less load on the motor at 6000 RPM in 1st gear down hill at -7 PSI, than at 6000 RPM in 4th up-hill at +11 PSI. A lot less. Your boost annalogy is flawed. As PRM's increase, so do the demands on that O-ring, and the flow capacity at the mouth of the pickup. That's got nothing to do with boost. Idle testing is just a quick check tot see if its totaly and completely FUBAR'd. Boosting it to "be sure" is foolish.

On many modern sports cars that came with both manual and automatics, the automatic is faster in the 1/4 mile. I'd say from a racing perspective, that refutes your belief system. A manual is more difficult to drive, and in many cases it's a disadvantage from a competitive perspective as well. Just because something requires more skill to opperate, does not mean replacing it with an easier system removes the drivers still level. It allows the driver to focus on other elements that can't be replaced, like steering and braking.

and you are going on pure speculation that the dented pan hasn't constricted the pickup. If it idles with good pressure, that does not mean it will be able to flow adequate volume at higher RPM's. As RPM's increase, so does flow at the mouth of the pickup. If it's constricted, the pump will simply be unable to keep up. if the seal at the pump end of the pickup has been disturbed, it will likely flow at idle OK, but not at WOT when the vacuum in the tube increases due to the increased flow demands of the pump, it is at that point that air will be drawn past the seal. By the time it becomes apparent on the stock oil pressure gage, the bearings have already been starved of oil for a while. Trying to rev the motor in the driveway won't show much useful info either since the stock gage is very slow to respond. again, but the time it shows, it's already too late. It's a risk. One you are willing to gamble with, and many of us are not willing to advise. The owner of the car should be well advised of the risks, not just told "yah, if idle pressure on the stock gage says it's OK, you are good to go". That's not good/complete advice. The stock gage shouldn't be trusted, period.

is it? You said "maybe". Is it maybe, or the truth? better yet, it it relevant, truth or not? If it were true, wouldn't he then be an expert on what not to do, and thus have first hand epxeriance about the dangers of an impropperly oiled engine and comprimised oiling systems, such as a dented pan? I don't see any logic in your approach. Look up ad hominem and think about it a little more.

if the feed to that pipe is plastic al the way, then goes metal just before poking out of the ground, that little bit of copper that touches the ground is now a ground rod at that point. They used to use metal water pipes as ground rods before the advent of plastic. Worked great cause you were connected to a metalic grid of gorund for many blocks worth of piping via the water main and all your neighbors. Now you only have that little bit of copper making contact in your back yard, but the same current load on it. Pound a metal rod into some damp/wet ground a few feet deep about 10-20' feet from this water pipe and measure the voltage difference between it and your leaky pipe. If there is more than a volt or two AC, you found your problem.

he's not changing your post bill, it's making fun of you with sarcasim, it's one step below Ad Hominem which you frequently enjoy using yourself. watch: It's easy to do, you try it.

Wow, that changes everything Cal, this whole topic has been ruined by that change. No one else has ever done that, we should ban him for that for sure to set an example.