ernielist

Ok will do.

I have a hardpipe from the mas to the turbo

My IC pipes and all are good. The mas air sensor we used was off of a quest that is running and driving fine. Not to mention that the car idles fine on the secondary until it warms up, then when it warms up it runs like crap, if I kill the mas at this point it runs fine. If I idle it on the primary it runs like crap all the time even if I disconnect the mas. Im confused, I have tried another primary it ran a little better, had that primary cleaned and no luck still ran like crap. I just dont understand why the car runs great on the secondary with mas until warmup? I mean shouldnt it be running rich and fouling everything out? Why would it run great on the secondary with no mas and why would it run good on the secondary until warmup? I thought it was a bad mas too, but the other mas didn't work either then I figured the primary injector was shot. What are the procedures for checking the mas, I will meter it out just to be sure, but once again if it was mas, why would it idles great on the secondary and like crap on the primary even with the mas disconnected?

When it was running on the secondary it only did it when it warmed up, but if I unplugged the mas it would stop. Now that I am running on the primary it runs crappy all the time, The FPR is brand new and it has been checked it is good. the cts has been checked and it is within norms I even bypassed it to double check. Any other ideas??

i havent looked at em yet, i do know it runs better with a fresh set of plugs, but only for a short time

its an 89

My car has a bucking/surging problem throughout the rpm range, it also idles like crap. Heres what I have done to fix it: cap, rotor, plugs, wires, ignition coil fuel filters, checked strainers, checked fuel pump, new fpr, cleaned and flowed injectors, traded injectors for known good ones traded mas for known good unit, checked collant temp sensor, checked ISC, replaced vac hoses, cleaned relays and fusible links cleaned injector clips and associated sensor clips cleaned everything basically alt is putting out juice and batt is good. all IC hoses are connected and good vac advance tested and is good, I am receiving signal from the TBI to advance the vac timing is within limits A friend came over and told me I had the harness on the injectors wrong and I was idling off the secondary, we switched the harness and idles it on the primary it idles better on the secondary so we figured the primary was bad we swapped for a good primary which didnt fix the problem. The thing is when I was idling on the secondary and it started to idle like crap all I would have to do is disconnect my mas and the car would idle on the secondary just fine, can someone please tell me what could possibly be wrong with this car, I have checked everything. The timing is not off in the car because it ran pretty good when I got it and the problem has been getting progressively worse and I am about to lose my mind because I have checked everything and done everything that was recommended and put the recommended parts in the car and it still doesnt run. Help or come buy it.

Yes the MAS could very well be making the problem.

The dash cluster appears to be in VGC, I have no way to plug it in to test it as I have analog gauges, if anyone knows hot to test it let me know. I need a primary injector if someone would like to work a trade perhaps.

I have a ac compressor and a technica dash cluster if anyone has a need for em.

In relation to the mods we would mostly be doing to our cars however very seldom. While the loss through the intercooler is proportional to the flow (CFM) squared, unlikely the change will be of a magnitude that requires a bigger intercooler. If dramatic changes in flow are created, say 50%, then the flow loss would increase by 1.5 squared, or 2.25, and that would prove excessive thus strongly suggesting a larger intercooler. You seem to know more about this so please correct this if its wrong?

Been reading this thread and the info is great, but hos about this argument for air-to-air vs air-to-water? There is an overwhelming quantity of ambient air available to cool an air-to-air core relative to the charge air thru the inside of the intercooler (The iced down water intercooler is the only exception to this argument.). At just 60 mph, with a 300 bhp engine at full tilt, the ambient air available to cool the intercooler is about ten times the amount of charge air needed to make the 300 hp. Whereas the water intercooler largely stores the heat in the water until off throttle allows a reverse exchange. Some heat is expelled from a front water cooler, but the temperature difference between the water and ambient air is not large enough to drive out much heat. Another way to view the situation is that ultimately the heat removed from the air charge must go into the atmosphere regardless of whether it's from an air intercooler or a water based intercooler. The problem with the water intercooler is that the heat has more barriers to cross to reach the atmosphere than the air intercooler. Like it or not, each barrier represents a resistance to the transfer of heat. The net result; more barriers, less heat transfer

make sure you didn't put the wrong connector on the wrong injector and make sure the injectors are in the right slots. my primary is bad and its doing exactly what you are describing. I would ook at the injectors and check yer FPR witha might vac to see if its holding vacuum. If it is and you don't get a bunch of fuel coming out of the vac line on the bottom of it it should be good.

Yea ernie, thanks again for coming out and checking out the car. I really appreciate it. Heres a lit fo what has been done with the car for everyone to peruse, if anyone else can think of any other maintenance type items I need to do on the car let me know: Cap and rotor replaced Ignition wires replaced All fuel filters replaced, strainers checked, gas tank checked, fuel pump checked. All intercooler hoses checked for cracks and tightness. Valve lash adjusted to .006 for intake and .009 for exhuast BSE kit complete JV Kit complete FPR replaced Plugs replaced with NGK BPRES-11 (think 11, whatever the ngk stuff is supposed to be for out cars) KN cleaned and oiled. Rag joint replaced Winshield fixing to be replaced. Ernie fixed my third brake light and rear wiper motor. Injectors cleaned and flowed Vac advance checked for proper functioning, distributor cleaned. Vac advance signal from TB checked and verified. Verified 10.5 psi of boost coming from turbo with mechanical gauge Shaft play checked in turbo, all good. Iginition coil replaced with new stocker (will upgrade to MSD once car is running right.) Cleaned all fusable links except for the main link which I will be replacing. Cleaned all relays under hood. Checked alt for good voltage and amperage. Removed ac compressor and associated belt. Repaired engine collant temp sensor connector and checked sensor for proper operation. Checked wastegate for proper operation with might vac. Oil and filter change Vac lines checked and replaced. Interior professionally cleaned I cant think of anything else at this time. If anyone can think of anything else I need to do let me know. Mods I am planning - 3 inch downpipe with associated exhuast Increase boost pressure from 10.5 to 15 psi. MSD coil 8mm wires Hardpipes for IC lines

Any way to check on the peak psi efficiency of the 12a?

Its not bucking at all in 1st gear?

Lol no problem, Hey at least I answered you. Google mitsubiishi 12a i found information on it that way. Ok I found it here, this should tell you what you need to know: I figured i would share and compile my knowledge here and general specs for those intrested in using any MHI turbochargers. There are quite a few diffrent mitsubishi turbochargers out there. TODAY they range from as small as TD02 to TD08 series. ALl recent Mitsubishi turbos these days carry the TD0 prefix followed by a number. the number generally designates the class of turbo and turbine wheel size. THe most current models are the TD series turbine wheels. THe previous generation was the TC series turbochargers. There still are a few TC04 and TC05 series turbos floating around most can be found on overseas diesel engines and a few 80s cars here in the states. Most mitsubishi turbochargers use A general prefix. FOr example TD05H-14B 6CM^2 This roughly breaks down into TD generation of turbine wheel, 5H class of turbine wheel (specific size) , 14B compressor wheel, 6CM turbine housing. Turbine housings Below is a small chart translating the turbocharger information into more common A/R ratios that we are all used to seeing these days as used with garrett turbochargers. 6 cm2 = 0.41 A/R 7 cm2 = 0.49 A/R 8 cm2 = 0.57 A/R 9 cm2 = 0.65 A/R 10 cm2 = 0.73 A/R 11 cm2 = 0.81 A/R 12 cm2 = 0.89 A/R ALl TD04 based turbochargers us 6CM turbine housings (to my knowledge) and TD05 series turbochargers generally use anywhere from 6 to 10cm housings. Compressor wheels Mitsubishi compressor wheels are usually a number joined with a letter. THe number is a specific wheel and the letter is the shape or blade arangement (trim). There are A,B,C,G,T series wheels. "G" series compressor wheels are usually alternating blade heights and curvature of the fins, where as "B" series wheels are all one height. "C" series wheels are also one height as well. Not much information is known about the "A" series wheels as they are not used much at all anymore along with the "B" series wheels. The "T" series wheels are similar to the "G" In most respects but are more agressive in trim. Any TD04 series compressor wheel will fit on any TD04 series shaft weather its TD04H or TD04HL or even TE04H. TD04 and TD05 series compressor wheels are not interchangable because of the size of the hole in the compressor wheel. you CAN sleeve a TD05 wheel to fit a TD04 shaft but this requires precise balancing and if the compressor wheel is too big. it MAY cause the shaft to snap a high speeds or wear on bearings un-evenly and cause a failure. Turbine Wheels/ There are just a few turbine wheel options available. Below is a list of the most common TD04 and TD05 turbine wheels and their specs (inducer/exducer) TD04 1.57/1.86 in. TD04L 1.62/1.86 in. TD04HL 1.80/2.05 in. TD04H 1.735/2.042 in. TE04H 1.88/2.01 in. TD05H 1.93/2.20 in. TD05HR 1.94/2.20 in. (Reverse flow, twin scroll) TD04 Turbochargers TD04 series turbochargers have 6cm^2 turbine housings which is basically a .41 A/R turbine housing when calculated out. As for cartidges the all use the same bearings on the inside and seals. This means any TD04/TD04H/TD04L/TD04HL turbochargers can use these rebuild kits. The TD04 turbo CHRAs also seem to have either what we call a shallow or deep lip on them (turbine side of CHRA). Basically if you have a td04 turbocharger and the last 2 serial numbers on the compressor housing end in 00 then you have a shallow lip on the turbine side of the CHRA and the lip where the cartridge sits in the turbine housing is a short. If you have a compressor cover ending in 01 then you have a deep lip TD04 CHRA and the lip on the turbine housing will be deeper. These are the only 2 major diffrences in TD04 CHRAs ive seen personally. This means you can swap whatever TD04 CHRA into whatever td04 turbine housing provided the numbers match and the turbine wheel from the stock one is the same size (ie both turbine wheels are TD04 THis trick seems to work for alot of 3000GT guys wanting to upgrade to WRX TD04L-13T series turbochargers and TD04H-13g Turbos from early automatic DSMs. Misc Info Below is a link to a site that has quite a few mitsubishi compressor flow maps and information on how to read them. Stealth 316 - Turbocharger Compressor Flow Maps Below is a list of a few mitsubishi turbochargers and vehicles they are most likely found on. TD04-9B = 91-99 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 / Dodge stealth R/T Twin turbo TD04H-13G = 90-94 Automatic Eclipse/Talon/Laser TD04L-13T = 02-?? Subaru WRX TD05H-14B = 90-94 5-spd Eclipse/Talon/Laser TD05-12A = 86-89 Mitsubishi Starion/ Chrysler Connquest TD06-17C = GMC Syclone/Typhoon TE04H 13C = Various chrysler/dodge/plymouth turbo cars

im guessing flat back lol

I think the 12a is a flatback from what I have read, I dont think the superback will interchange, but im no expert.

I have a friend of mine coming over too look at it today and he is pretty familiar with these cars. He was saying that the 12a operate at peak efficiency at 15psi.

If an intercooler piped blew off wouldnt that make it hard to get the car started?

Lol yea, I guess. But my 04 was the worst, it seemed like it just didn't want to go unless i really throttled it up.

Yea I spoke to this lady and her husband yesterday about her car and unfortunately I wasnt much help so I referred her to you "experts" lol.

Aight locked it in my favorites thanks.

Dude drain the tank, i took mine out with like 5 gallons in it and it weighed a friggin ton lol. I used a hydalic jack to lower it and put it back in cuz i couldnt muscle it by myself and turn a rachet lol. I had a jeep that would do the same thing, cut out when it was low on gas, hard to start crap like that. When I ran it with a full tank it was fine. I thought the fuel pump was going but it turned out that there is an o ring in the tank that hold pressure in the fuel line for starting the vehicle, when I shut it off or when the fuel level was low (because the o ring wasnt immersed, or around sharp corners) it would cut off. It would always start back up and I could throttle through it. Well jeep wanted 325 to fix it because they said the oring came with the fuel pump and the oring is what keep the pressure from bleeding off when the tank runs low or when you turn it off. I did some research and found the replacement oring for like 1.99. I would call the factory and see if there are any known issues or recalls.