JustPaus_88TSi Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 The axles are part of the rear end. I apologize for any play on words, for making you think I meant the center chunk. A solid axle most likely will not break any part of it, unless it was weak to begin with. Therefore my comment on transmitting the shock to further forward components. Maybe our stock diff center chunk is strong...but, that doesn't help when it can't get to the wheels. Very true. However, the stock rear has gone 8's in the 1/4 mile with the only aftermarket part being DSS axles. We're talking about 1.3s 60ft's with full slicks. Horsepower House said they only had a problem with the stock axles when they went over the 700hp level(no mention of tq) with a transbrake auto and slicks, they were also in the 8's. Lets face it...people have sheered the stock axels with the G54B, with a mild amount of power. I know no figures, but, i know its happened quite a few times. With wheel hop yes, you can pop the axle while running on two cylinders and 1psi of boost. Say there is a 600hp, 550lb/ft tq V8 in there, with sticky tires and a drop of the clutch....I guarentee the axles would only last a few hard launches, if that. I guarantee if wheel hop is controlled, no they won't. 474hp/550tq Put a solid rear in there, it won't break, so, as I said a few times, the shock will transfer through the driveline to the next piece...the tranny. So, yes, a stock tranny would blow into a bunch of tiny pieces...therefore that needing replaced with a stronger, more bulletproof unit as well...but, if it was a different engine anyway...that wouldn't matter. You really think all you need is to swap a straight axle in there and it's bullet proof? I've seen dozens of axles snap at the strip. You're still going to spend $$$ upgrading to aftermarket axles in a straight setup if hard launching is your thing. No where have I said the tranny was strong...I'm just saying, the weak axles act as a cushion for the tranny. Yes rear end work is cheaper...but, theres only so many of those parts...so...he is looking at other options, which we don't really have yet. Others have already made other trannies work...now lets move on to the rear end. I didn't want to imply that you were saying the tranny is strong, I was just going off of the info in this thread. I saw nothing of a motor/tranny swap. Going with that, i'm thinking the rearend is the last thing that needs addressed and the money can be better spent elsewhere for the time being. Also...just throwing this out there........but, why do you think all the Corvette guys switch out their rear ends if they go drag racing? Exactly, so they don't shear axles, or break any other piece of the IRS. IRS is a proven system for the handling, and, yes, it probably would post faster lap times. But, the solid axle is a tried and true method for putting bukoo torque to the ground, over and over again. Again, very true. This thread doesn't sound like he's interested in much drag racing though. And don't get me wrong, a straight setup can work very well on a track that turns if it's setup for it, but it just falls short of IRS when it comes to taking tenths off of your lap time because there's really no fine tuning you can do(Toe/caster/camber). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Firstly, I just want to answer one of your initial questions. I haven't seen or heard about anyone going solid axle while still keeping the stock unibody chassis. The solid swaps were with either full tube frames, or back-halfed. This is a member here, "Roush". http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p284/rwroush/ConquestBuildPics027.jpg Wow, I didn't think this would spur such a debate. To answer a few questions: - Yes, I have access to proper tooling andmaterials to tackle such a project. - Yes, I am familiar enough with the proper geometry. - Engine/trans combination is yet to be decided, but will be below 450whp and 500ft.lbs. total output. To be honest, I feel that the rear suspension design of our cars sucks. What exactly? Other than no aftermarket coilovers(besides one), our rear design is basically the same as many other IRS's. Want more adjustability? Here's a competition track SQ, and you'll see the additional work done to gain more minute adjustments. http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10162/10.jpg Also, I'm worried about long-term durability. I will not wait for an unobtainable part to fail before replacing it. I also want adjustability, customization, and reliability. Adjustable what? What can you adjust on a solid rear setup, besides shock dampening and ride height? The day you can find me a new-in-box LSD rebuild package and OEM relacement axles is the day I'll be comfortable road-coursing an OEM rear with Hoosier slicks and 450whp. Why do you think you'll get the rear to fail exactly? I understand the parts availabilty aspect though, i've only read about a couple people who were looking for those because their 200+k mile rear started to groan on accelleration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-O Posted August 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Dave, IDK man instead of dumping so much into a quest to basically only have the body left seems expensive and somewhat useless.Dave if you want an easy to fix all around track car get a 240 or mustang or something...I am not dogging your passion but keep in mind if want a truely reliable track car that has "off the shelf" parts you have to choose something much more common... Just my opinion Roberto This is the fun car, not a track car. I've had my track car ('86 GT notchback w/'93 Cobra goodies) and if I wanted to be competitive, I'd buy a Miata and a few sets of Hoosiers. Okay, let's just say I want a solid axle just to do it, no other reason. The already paltry aftermarket of our cars would be that much smaller if people didn't do stuff just to do it. Looks like I'll just stick with the stock rear. Seems to be "simpler" that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strang3majik Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Very true. However, the stock rear has gone 8's in the 1/4 mile with the only aftermarket part being DSS axles. We're talking about 1.3s 60ft's with full slicks. Horsepower House said they only had a problem with the stock axles when they went over the 700hp level(no mention of tq) with a transbrake auto and slicks, they were also in the 8's. With wheel hop yes, you can pop the axle while running on two cylinders and 1psi of boost. I guarantee if wheel hop is controlled, no they won't. 474hp/550tq You really think all you need is to swap a straight axle in there and it's bullet proof? I've seen dozens of axles snap at the strip. You're still going to spend $$$ upgrading to aftermarket axles in a straight setup if hard launching is your thing. I didn't want to imply that you were saying the tranny is strong, I was just going off of the info in this thread. I saw nothing of a motor/tranny swap. Going with that, i'm thinking the rearend is the last thing that needs addressed and the money can be better spent elsewhere for the time being. Again, very true. This thread doesn't sound like he's interested in much drag racing though. And don't get me wrong, a straight setup can work very well on a track that turns if it's setup for it, but it just falls short of IRS when it comes to taking tenths off of your lap time because there's really no fine tuning you can do(Toe/caster/camber). I was unaware that a aftermarket axles were available. But, still...theres just that many more pivot points to potentially break. Also, wheel hop is a concern...though I have seen solid axle cars do it to...its usually not as catastrophic. As far as a solid axles strength, most worth doing the swap for (9", Dana 60, 8-3/4..anything else anyone would swap)...they won't break with 500hp. They say the 8-3/4 out of the box will handle up to 800....the dana, up to 1200 or more, and, the 9" is also somehwere around there. The 8.8s I believe you'd have to build up. I'm just saying...a solid axle has less weak points in it...ie solid axle. Plus, if you were cutting it down to fit into a Starquest, you'd have to get aftermarket axles anyway to get the right length...so, might as well get some strange axles or something. But, I think we're both on the same page here....they both have their benefits and downfalls as I said. Would it be a lot of work, yes, but, so is a V8 swap, and people have done that. Dave-O has a point...what are we going to do when our axle resources dry up? It would be good to explore new frontiers in the rear end department... And, lets be honest...who doesn't like a big rear end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) just put a starion body on a mustang v8. sounds like thats what is desired here anyway v8 and solid axle. get a starquest body kit equipped mustang is what i am saying its gonna be funny when you post up "beat a mustang" in the kills though becuase it like duh you are a mustang lol Edited August 3, 2009 by JohnnyWadd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strang3majik Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 just put a starion body on a mustang v8. sounds like thats what is desired here anyway v8 and solid axle. get a starquest body kit equipped mustang is what i am saying its gonna be funny when you post up "beat a mustang" in the kills though becuase it like duh you are a mustang lol I, sir, will never use Ford parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim si Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) just put a starion body on a mustang v8. sounds like thats what is desired here anyway v8 and solid axle. get a starquest body kit equipped mustang is what i am saying its gonna be funny when you post up "beat a mustang" in the kills though becuase it like duh you are a mustang lol i did a google search and nobody makes such a kit,lol mustangs suck,too many out there. Edited August 4, 2009 by tim si Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 What's more expensive to rebuild, the tranny or a rear? Show me one part of the rearend that has failed, ever. The rear has held more power than anyone on this forum has thrown at it, from drag racing with slicks and trans brake equipped trannys(much worse than your "500hp clutch dump"), to circuit track racecars with dogbox transmissions. The only thing that needs replaced is the axles. It was a logical statement, in fact it was completely understated. The "LOL" was for the the tranny "probably" taking the grunt. It'll flex the shafts and pop. No it doesn't. The only other "condition" worse than drag launch stress, is losing contact and regaining it during a lap around a track. Like catching too much of a rumble strip, going airborn and not landing squarely while still on the throttle. Unless of course you have a habit of accellerating with one tire in dirt and one on the pavement. The stock tranny is garbage and will eat itself long before the rearend even starts sweating. Which is exactly why I asked "we're talking about what kind of motor/tranny build here?" Not to start anything but there are some folks here who think the stock tranny is very strong. Stronger than a t5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 They should probably document their builds and get the info on the forum then, unless they just 'think' it's strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) Broken spring disk from a 4bolt. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/Diff%20PIctures/DSC01296.jpg Destroyed LSD parts from a 6 bolt. The coupler on this rear looked like new so i was surprised to find this. Oil condition was poor. I doubt either rear saw any real hp or torque. Both came from a junk yard car that some one gave up on. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/Diff%20PIctures/DSC01344.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/Diff%20PIctures/DSC01349-1.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/Diff%20PIctures/DSC01350-1.jpg And there is something wrong in my friends 88 rear that has sen a lot of drag passes. We ruled out the torque tube/coupler and gear backlash so the problem must be in the spiders side gears or lsd plates. We did not tear it apart because his wife left and the car is in her name and see is being a B. Used rears are readily available and cheep. Most get crushed though because no one plans ahead and buys them when they are available, apposed to waiting till they need one. I have seen far more destroyed or worn out Transmissions than rears. Edited August 6, 2009 by StarquestRescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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