SFBMX88 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) Been trying to do a short stroke suspension conversion on the flatty and don't want to assemble the rear until I have some proper camber plates. I've been measuring/tinkering the past few days and finally threw this rough draft together on Sketchup: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/sfbmx88vol2/host/plateROUGH.jpg I've measured all around the strut tower, and there should be enough room for 1/4"-3/8" movement positive/negative from the stock location. It also seems that cutting of the strut tower wouldn't be needed. The very top plate is a spacer. The mounting bolts would take the job of holding in the camber adjustment here. The center piece would house a spherical bearing(FKS10T) for the strut shaft to bolt to. The very bottom plate contains the mounting bolts and would "sandwich" the entire assembly. I'm thinking these will NOT be compatable with stock springs as they will most likely INCREASE ride height. Will need to be run with coil-over setups, which im in the process of doing. Oh yea, it will most likely be all aluminum and about 1.25" in total thickness. If you're doing a short stroke setup, this increase in height really doesn't matter. Any constructive criticizm would be greatly appreciated!!! Edited May 12, 2009 by SFBMX88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Venable Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Looks very nice, I'd be interested if I didn't have mookeehs adjustable rear pillow balls, but the adjustment points on his are fixed points. http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/DSCF5840.jpg You've got a winner there, I'm anxious to see you make a set Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 you want to make this as skinny as possible. the more material you have here, the less room for suspension travel you will have. with the car lowered, its easy to bottom out the suspension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted May 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) You've got a winner there, I'm anxious to see you make a set Derek Thanks! I'm anxious to find somebody to make me a set! CNC a must! I'm talking to TechnoToyTuning right now, so hopefully they can build me a prototype for testing. I've already sent them some rough drafts, and they said it makes sense. I have a set of their front Starion plates, and they look good with the FKS10T bearing in there. We'll see how it all plays out though.... you want to make this as skinny as possible. the more material you have here, the less room for suspension travel you will have. with the car lowered, its easy to bottom out the suspension The car will be lowered, but with shortend rear shp housings. They will contain MR2/Celica front agx inserts which are way shorter than stock Starion bits, so Im not at all worried about travel. Once I get these plates done, I will be able to get a realistic idea of the total stack height of the entire strut assembly. From there, I will be able to figure out how much to cut off the shp housing. Also, I will be using the coilover set you sold years ago for this setup! Theyre still on the car now and still holding up! Thanks again Art! Edited May 12, 2009 by SFBMX88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Venable Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 They will contain MR2/Celica front agx inserts You want to use 91-95 mr2 REAR inserts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 You want to use 91-95 mr2 REAR inserts We'll see! The valving for the fronts are abit stiffer, plus I already purchased a set of 4. The part number is used in the MR2(91-95) and Celica/ALLTRAC(88-89) front end. The length looks okay, and it fits in the shp housing. For comparison, shp, non-shp front tokico insert w/o spacer, agx celica front insert: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/sfbmx88vol2/host/DSC09476.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I think it looks pretty good man, but i think there are much more simple ways to accomplish this. The one thing that would concern me is the slotted adjustment. To get a plate like that to hold you will need some serious torque. The fact that you are not bolting into the pillow block but passing through will only make a point contact(3) to hold in place. why is your bottom a two piece setup? So they can be water jet or laser cut? Also why are two of the holes counter-sunk? If you are dead set on the slotted adjustment I would stick two bolts through each slot. Its best to have them bolt into the pillow block housing rather than pass through. It will give you a better bite. One thing that would help is having a ball mill make some perpendicular passes on the mating faces so there is a little extra "grab". here is something i threw together real quick that i think would be a better/easier design. The pillow block is steel with yellow zinc coating and 4 tapped holes. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/camber.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 why is your bottom a two piece setup? So they can be water jet or laser cut? Also why are two of the holes counter-sunk? If you are dead set on the slotted adjustment I would stick two bolts through each slot. Its best to have them bolt into the pillow block housing rather than pass through. It will give you a better bite. One thing that would help is having a ball mill make some perpendicular passes on the mating faces so there is a little extra "grab". here is something i threw together real quick that i think would be a better/easier design. The pillow block is steel with yellow zinc coating and 4 tapped holes. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/camber.jpg Im still new to using Sketchup(program used to make the plate examples), so thats why the bottom plate looks fudged. The lower plate is actually a single piece with three counter sunk holes on the bottom side. Im hoping for the studs to be completely flush with no protrusions from the bottom. Im leaning toward the slotted design so I wont have to do any cutting/modifying of the strut towers. The very top hole is roughly 1.5" in diameter so there isnt much room for adjustment with conventional plates. Hopefully I can find some proper studs to take the extra torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8starion Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) Looks to be a similar design to these noltec plates. They are caster/camber But a similar clamping concept. http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll122/smallblock12/ Edited May 14, 2009 by v8starion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Looks to be a similar design to these noltec plates. They are caster/camber But a similar clamping concept. http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll122/smallblock12/ A proven design? Did you install them? Do the adjustments you make stay pretty locked in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Im still new to using Sketchup(program used to make the plate examples), so thats why the bottom plate looks fudged. The lower plate is actually a single piece with three counter sunk holes on the bottom side. Im hoping for the studs to be completely flush with no protrusions from the bottom. Im leaning toward the slotted design so I wont have to do any cutting/modifying of the strut towers. The very top hole is roughly 1.5" in diameter so there isnt much room for adjustment with conventional plates. Hopefully I can find some proper studs to take the extra torque. you could also do this with some custom lower control arms:). Your stud will need to be pressed into your plate so there wont be a head on it. If there is it will be a small head that will need a counter-bore. on the bottom plate, whats the reasoning behind the two different sized slots? I think your bottom plate as drawn can be half the thickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I think if you can have it thick enough to allow the top of the shock to move further than the stock center hole would allow, then it's fine. You're already taking nearly 2" out of the back with the shorter shocks, you can make some of that back up with thick camber plates if it allows more adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8starion Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 A proven design? Did you install them? Do the adjustments you make stay pretty locked in? I dont own those. I just noticed it matched your idea. They were around a few years ago. I dug them up as I was researching Making similar plates. They are mostly UK / aussie. I beleave there was an austarion GP for them. FKS10T? Where are you sourcing this bearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 there is not that much space in that area for all the screws and stuff you are planing around the nut of the main shaft. as it is you have to cut some matarial to create space to move the shaft to change the camber. you have to keep it as simple as possible. the shaft has no problem staying where it set. just use two spring washers to keep constant pressure on it when the nut is tightened and it will not move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted May 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) FKS10T? Where are you sourcing this bearing? Price range is around $15: http://www.racereadyproducts.com/fk-rod-en...gs-alloy-steel/ T3 uses them in their camber plates, so the bearings are proven. They just require a shim for the agx shaft to fit properly. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/sfbmx88vol2/host/DSC09503.jpg Revision coming soon! Edited May 15, 2009 by SFBMX88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted May 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 (edited) Its a 3 piece design. The grooves in all the plates are to help maintain the alignment of each plate. I've reduced the overall thickness of the assembly by 2-3mm. What do you guys think? http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/sfbmx88vol2/host/final3.jpg Edited May 19, 2009 by SFBMX88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 i dont think you are going to have the room to move your center piece. Also for you to adjust them are you going to have to loosen the screw inside the fender from the bottom? I dont think you need the groove there. the 3 bolts will keep it from rotating and they arent going to add anything to the clamping setup. Are your 3 studs that come up through the body the same ones you loosen for the adjustment? I think your design is better than the first one but i still dont see a benefit to a 3 piece design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8starion Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 (edited) Price range is around $15: http://www.racereadyproducts.com/ I ordered a pair of these bearings to mess around with in a little R&D. They have not arivied yet. But it seems to me if it were made from steel it could be made thinner and be just as strong. also the O.D. of the center plate could be reduced to allow for more overall adjustment. I like the idea of the groove to maintain a good centerline. What is the depth of your top plate? and did you choose that thickness because of increased room in the tower at that level? Is the strut bolt pattern on a fatty and a flatty the same? Front and/or rear? Edited June 6, 2009 by v8starion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted May 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 (edited) To actually adjust the camber, the suspension will have to be unloaded, and the 3 top strut mounting nuts loosened. From there, just push or pull the wheel. The strut mounting bolt patterns are the same between fatty and flatty(I swapped fatty suspension into my flatty)! -The top "spacer" plate is going to be around 1/4" thick. If the top "spacer" plate wasn't present, there wouldn't be any room for adjustment as the shape of the strut tower is slightly concave. -I modeled the center "bearing" plate around dimensions taken from the T3 front plate(pics below). I checked clearances under the strut towers, and with the outer diameter of the plate as it is(roughly 3.75"), it can be able to move about 1/2" positive or negative from center. The thing is, the most room I could get in the whole plate assembly to move around is 1/2" either direction anyway. -The bottom "retainer" plate will carry double duty. The plate will help to retain the FKS10T bearing(eliminating the need for a c-clip like for the front), and have mounting studs flush mounted from the bottom. My reasoning for the alignment grooves is to make sure the slot doesn't misalign with the bearing itself. The slot will be abit wider than the shock shaft, which is roughly the diameter of the bearing race. T3 bearing plate: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/sfbmx88vol2/host/DSC09466.jpg Shouldn't need the c-clip thanks to the bottom plate: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/sfbmx88vol2/host/DSC09499.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/sfbmx88vol2/host/DSC09505.jpg Heres the shim they use to take up the gap between bearing and shock shaft: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/sfbmx88vol2/host/shim.jpg Edited May 23, 2009 by SFBMX88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) caster is a steerin angle it does effect rear. the only one thing i dont like about the sliding plate is if i had it i would have to readjust the rear strut brace during camber adjustment. could you make the ttt bearing be in its own housing but off center and then adjust camber by loosening the bolt and turning the plate? bolt stationary and bearing housing slotted. i think just one plate that houses the pillow bearing would work good. the bearing could be offset and the slotted holes diagonal to allow maximum movement. also you could have the assembly go on top of the strut tower to allow for a up travel better Edited June 5, 2009 by JohnnyWadd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 . i think just one plate that houses the pillow bearing would work good. the bearing could be offset and the slotted holes diagonal to allow maximum movement. Im not sure I catch your drift here. Pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Im not sure I catch your drift here. Pictures? i will do some drawings on monday and send em or maybe make a quick mock up out of hobby foam again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8starion Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Where did you get your MR2(91-95) agx front inserts from? I'm trying to find a good price. What is the difference from the rears that D is using in his MR2 conversion thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Venable Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Summit Racing has the rear AGX's for less than $100 each, not sure on the price of their fronts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Summit Racing has the rear AGX's for less than $100 each, not sure on the price of their fronts X2 on Summit. Thats where I picked up mine at about $94 each(best price I could find). Lots of other dealers want $120-$150. I went with the front inserts based on advice I got from TechnoToyTuning. Basically, they said the fronts are better suited to the weight of our cars. Should work out since the part number is also used for the 88-89 AllTrac Celica which is similar in weight to the Starion. Part number is 765015(front) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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