Fanta Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) and I literally mean the hexadecimal code on the ECU. Edited July 31, 2008 by Fanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Even if you could access it, could you reflash the ecu? I bet you can't even do that. Unless you got a new chip or something that you could do that with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Even if you could access it, could you reflash the ecu? I bet you can't even do that. Unless you got a new chip or something that you could do that with. That is what me along with a few other members off of this site are curious about. Even if our ROM chips aren't reflashable, there are those of us out there ( myself included ) that want to see the code at the very least. From there maybe try desoldering the factory one and soldering on a flashed one. I believe the 85, along with the 88/89 have daughter boards that make it easier to isolate the said ROM ( vs an 87 ecu ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 That is what me along with a few other members off of this site are curious about. Even if our ROM chips aren't reflashable, there are those of us out there ( myself included ) that want to see the code at the very least. From there maybe try desoldering the factory one and soldering on a flashed one. I believe the 85, along with the 88/89 have daughter boards that make it easier to isolate the said ROM ( vs an 87 ecu ) Sounds like an interesting idea.... I'm sure between myself and one of my co-workers, I could certainly get it pulled. I don't have any ECU to start with (even a "junk" ecu). Who actually made the ECU? dc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Who actually made the ECU? I suppose thats one place to start I have a spare 87 laying around to fiddle with. Personally an 88/89 ecu would be great because of the daughterboard, but its currently in my car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 I suppose thats one place to start I have a spare 87 laying around to fiddle with. Personally an 88/89 ecu would be great because of the daughterboard, but its currently in my car I'm assuming Mitsu didn't actually make it, but as simple as it really is, they may have (and I never looked that closely at mine). Is the hardware actually supposed to be different between an 87 and an 88/89, or is it really just software? I know you mentioned the daughterboard, but if everything is really similar or the same.... especially if you're just looking for the technique to read out the software...... an 87 may work just fine. And of course if you're just looking to read out the software, it may not even have to be a functioning part, cause the chip may have to come out either way (or that may be the easiest way). dc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 (edited) I'm assuming Mitsu didn't actually make it, but as simple as it really is, they may have (and I never looked that closely at mine). Is the hardware actually supposed to be different between an 87 and an 88/89, or is it really just software? I know you mentioned the daughterboard, but if everything is really similar or the same.... especially if you're just looking for the technique to read out the software...... an 87 may work just fine. And of course if you're just looking to read out the software, it may not even have to be a functioning part, cause the chip may have to come out either way (or that may be the easiest way). dc You know, I honestly don't know. I'd imagine the hardware is different since the plug location is different on the 88/89 ( only software change I'm aware of is the fuel cut is removed or upped ). As for the daughter board, I recall having read something on the Zilvia forums with the 89 240sx's and something about the daughterboard makes pulling the code and such a LOT easier ( due to the ribbon or something, I'll have to go find it again ). Will it apply to our cars? Maybe, but you have start somewhere. All I really have to go on ( from knowing nothing ) is what techniques other cars from the same era as ours have had done. Even if we can't one way or another reprogram our ECU's by either reflash or different flashable ROMs, pulling and documenting the hexidecimal code would still be something that we could claim to have done. A lot of people find it unreasonable to do so, but -shrugs- why not? Never hurts to have another possible and affordable avenue. Edited August 5, 2008 by Fanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Also - I'm curious - but what is it that makes the 1G DSM MAS and the GM MAS compatible with our cars? The ECU has to be able to read that sensor no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Fanta, here are pics from the inside of an 84/85 ecu AT. MD084582 http://filebox.vt.edu/users/maperez/Starion/85ECULabel.JPG http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/ECU/starionecu.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/ECU/starionecu2.jpg ive tried following the traces but its a bit tough. The first pic shows the bjt transistors on the heat sink just between the A and B connector(im sure the 87+ will be in the same place). Each transistor is basically a switch. the yellow things are caps, each feeds one of the bjts. there is another heat sink right behind the caps with 3 more transistors on it some of which are tied into the traces for firing the injectors. Some of the lines go off to that little white board with the black circle off to the right. Im also not sure which chip we are talking about. ones a toshiba and ones a mitsu chip Toshiba - TC5093AP Japan 8405H Mitsubishi - MH6356-0226 E-130 8417A Best I can find, the Toshiba chip is an 8 bit Analog to Digital Converter http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets.../TC5093AP.shtml While im not EE i would say that chip is what convert the inputs from various sensors to digital data which is input into the mitsu chip, but thats just a guess. I havent found any data on the mitsu chip. Some of the smaller chips on the board are toshiba as well and the data is readily available on pinout and function for those. There are some logic gate stuff on there, there is a chip for master-slave flip flop which may be used for open-closed loop depending on CTS input, again all just guesses. almost all of the pins on one side of the large mitsu chip tie directly to the toshiba AD converter chip. The other end goes out through various channels. Maybe when its not 2 am ill sit down and try and trace this thing out a little better but right now my eyes are failing me. If someone could provide a pic of an 88/89 ecu or an 87 to see if the layout did in fact change that would be good. The only ecus i have are all 84/85 stuff. Fanta, the pre 87 stuff may be easier to utilize because it uses an actual map sensor first off, there is no primary/secondary switching function. just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 to answer your mas question , maybe. the stock karmen vortex setup sends a square wave frequency that the ecu counts for air flow numbers. Most setups can convert an analog voltage reading to a frequency the ecu can use(in mitsus case). Ive never used one but i believe you dont use all the pins but you only use pins 2,4,6 and maybe 8. at least the pre 87 cars use the map sensor on the fire wall to sample air from the airbox for baro corrections and dont need whatever the sensor uses. 87+ may be different since they dont use a map sensor. 1G TURBO MAF 1 - Idle position switch 2 - Air flow sensor (signal) 3 - MPI control relay 4 - 5V power supply 5 - None 6 - Ground 7 - Barometric pressure sensor 8 - Intake air temperature 1G N/T MAF 1 - Air flow sensor (signal) 2 - MPI control relay 3 – 5V power supply 4 – Ground 5 – Barometric pressure 6 - Intake air temperature 2G TURBO MAF 1 – 5V Power supply 2 – Barometric pressure 3 – Air flow sensor 4 – MPI control relay 5 – Ground 6 – Intake air temperature 7 – Volume Air Flow CONVERSION: <1g nt MAF -to- 1g turbo MAF> Pin2 1g Turbo MAF => Pin1 1g NT MAF Pin3 1g Turbo MAF => Pin2 1g NT MAF Pin4 1g Turbo MAF => Pin3 1g NT MAF Pin6 1g Turbo MAF => Pin4 1g NT MAF Pin7 1g Turbo MAF => Pin5 1g NT MAF Pin8 1g Turbo MAF => Pin6 1g NT MAF CONVERSION: <1g turbo MAF -to- 2g turbo MAF> Pin1 1g Turbo MAF => ? Pin2 1g Turbo MAF => Pin3 2g Turbo MAF Pin3 1g Turbo MAF => Pin4 2g Turbo MAF Pin4 1g Turbo MAF => Pin1 2g Turbo MAF Pin5 1g Turbo MAF => - (doesn’t seem like it will be used) Pin6 1g Turbo MAF => Pin5 2g Turbo MAF Pin7 1g Turbo MAF => Pin2 2g Turbo MAF Pin8 1g Turbo MAF => Pin6 2g Turbo MAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 im not finding any info on the mitsu chip but i do believe it was produced by motorola for mitsu. still no datasheet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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