Oil in my turbo?????? like heaps of it

[almo]

So i just bought this baby for $350 a coupla weeks ago (heres my other thread http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.p...c=75421&hl= )

I thought i start a new thread that one was getttin long.

 

So theres allot of smoke coming out of the exhaust it looks white to me but maybe its grey but deffo not black. it doesn't smell like coolant an the car is defo running coolant not water.

 

Now i also know theres a good chance the head is cracked so I'm not ruling that out just yet either. But i just want to start ruling out or fixing the other problems first.

 

 

So I was snoopin round and when i took off all th tube round the turbo found them to be coated in "allot" of oil on the inside.

 

Also when i looked into the front of the turbo there was a pool of oil in the front part it was almost full up to the top of the curve.

The tube goin down to the intercooler was totally coated in oil (inside). It seemed like there was oil all over all the tubes but noting in the air filter or can it seemed dry.

 

Could this be causing the smoking???? maybe it's part of the problem.

 

Is there supposed to be that much oil in it, I thought maybe a bit, but that much?????.

 

Also when i dipped her ithe oil level is very high like a 1 quarter to 3/8 inch past the second notch. would this cause it?.

 

Since i set eyes on it i have only had it running for about 15min. I'm not sure b4 that i don't think the old bat had it goin much at all either maybe few mins here and there at most but I'm not 100% sure.

Could this do damage.

I'm in no rush in fixin her, like to take my time do thinks right if i can.

[Indiana]

excessive crankcase pressure pushing oil through the separator and the turbo is drawing it in, may not be a head problem, could be a blown head gasket, might have a cracked ring or hole in a piston but likey its just a head gasket at the front or the back of the head

[almo]

thanks Indiana for the info

so you think i should go for the head gasket/head rout.

 

So you don't think it's might be as simple as changing the turbo?

 

Just want to try and rule out other possibility's b4 i go taking off the head. I have never done this b4 but as they say theres is only one way to find out (learn) i guess.

[Indiana]

A bad turbo smokes like 50 freight trains when you drive and it may or may not boost. Oil laying in the turbo housing is likely being sucked in from somewhere, like up the separator drain from the separator being clogged or a dirty non OEM pcv valve, drawn out the hoses and enters the compressor inlet, it would also be in your intercooler too

[almo]

Would doing a compression test narrow things down a little??

 

If i was to check the compression would a crack head bad head gasket show up or is it more for piston an rings side of things? Now i know that if the compression was bad in one of the cylinders there is prob no way of knowing what is causing the low compression till i pull of the head off but i would at least point in that direction, Right? like if the compression was all good then it might not be a head, ring, gasket etc problem and i would avoid taking it off for now. Am i correct in thinking this?

I am not sure about any of this.

What can compression test tell you??

 

I have never done a compression test on anything b4.

 

I seen some in autozone the other day for like $40 dollars are these any good? or maybe someone has got a good recommendation.

 

I know this is prob small talk for most but I am trying to learn.

 

Thanks for the advice an help.

[Indiana]

those are fine, just don't ever drop it on the floor

 

you are looking for numbers that do not vary much from one cylinder to the next

[almo]

K cool I'm off to autozone.

 

See what i come up with.

[importwarrior]

dont forget to flush out the intercooler.

[almo]

Whats the best way to flush the intercooler?

[mikec]

Take the intercooler completely out of the car. Hang it so most of the oil will just slowly poor/drip out and let it sit that way for a while - until it pretty much won't drip any more. Then wash it with any of the following:

* Lots of spray brake or carb cleaner

* a little bit of gas

* water and Tide laundry detergent

* Simple Green

 

Do a final rinse with water. Then use a hair dryer to blow warm air through it to totally dry it out. I then like to put it in the sunshine for a while to really bake it - make sure all liquid water is evaporated.

 

Check the various hoses going to/from the intercooler too - they'll probably have an oil film on them. Check/clean them while the intercooler itself is drying in the sunshine.

 

Intercooler removal: I like to remove the front valence between the headlights - lots more room to work and it's MUCH easier to re-assemble things with the panel out of the way. Look at the plastic horizontal grill piece: you'll see a dinky screw on each end. Remove them. Then undo the small screw in each side marker light. Then remove the grill: it has a few - and fragile - white plastic clips that attach it to the metal behind it. A gentle squeeze with large-jaw pliers will make the clips come out without busting. Next, undo the two 12mm bolts on the backside of the valence - the bolts that hold a wire bundle, the cruise control vac pump, a water tank, etc. Then undo the handfulls of 10mm body-paint colored bolts. The grill should then pull forwards. Watch for a vac hose clipped to the valence too - part of the cruise control stuff. It should have a plastic coupler near the center so you can undo that and fish out the two hoses easily. Watch the ends of the valence as you remove it - don't let it twist or flop around and scratch other paint.

 

Then undo the hoses going to/from the intercooler. They'll need a little "persuasion" to let go once the hose clamps are removed. I "walk" a thin-bladed screwdriver all the way around the hose to break it free from the intercooler before tugging on it. Then you'll see the two "L" shaped plates that bolt to the intercooler and to the car body. Undo the "L" to intercooler bolts, tip the intercooler, and remove one "L" bracket from the car to make enough room to easily drop the intercooler.

 

mike c.

[almo]

Nice one on the info for cleaning the intercooler great details thanks Mikec, i will defo be doin this but a little later cos i reckon i have bigger problems right now.

 

So i got mesel an oul compression tester and here are the results. I think i did it right.

 

The engine was cold It will not start for some reason think it's a fuel thing anyways not too worried bout that just yet.

 

It's an 87 conquest with 98,000 miles

 

#1 140 psi

 

#2 135psi

 

#3 90psi

 

#4 135psi

 

Did i do it right? do these numbers make some sense?

 

So by my reckoning and reading of other posts and #3 being low this would be good cause for taking off the head.

 

I read somewhere that a difference of 14psi or more is cause for concern.

 

What do ye reckon?

 

Oh do you have any handy links of threads for taking off the head yourself (I am searching right now). I reckon i could take it off handy but I am real worried about the timing and putting it all back together. I changed a timing belt on a Mitsubishi lancer years ago f*** it up and broke a few valves don't want to be doin that again

 

 

 

Thanks

[almo]

Anyone got any opinion on this??

[mikec]

One low cylinder might not require pulling the cyl head. Try this first:

 

* with the spark plugs out, dribble about a spoonful of engine oil into the weak cylinder's plug hole. Re-do the compression test. If the number comes up significantly, then the piston rings are worn or there are scratches in the cylinder walls. An engine rebuild (or at least a re-ring + honing job) are required.

 

* A sticking/leaking jet valve can cause low compression. The jet valves are the dinky valves on the intake manifold side of the cyl head. They just screw into the head... remove the valve cover and you'll see them. With cyl #3 at top dead center (both rocker arms on the low spots aka "base circle" of the camshaft, the front crankshaft pully will have the timing notch half a turn opposite from the "T" timing mark) tap the jet valve. It should pop in/out easily/freely. If you feel any grit, it needs to be cleaned. Turn the crank 1/2 a turn so another cylinder is at top dead center... and see how it's jet valve feels so you can compare #3 to a "good one."

 

The jet valves have o-rings to seal them to the cyl head body. If you get new o-rings, you can swap jet valves from cyl #3 and some other cylinder... and then repeat the compression check. If the low compression follows the jet valve, you've proven it's a bad jet valve. If #3 stays low, it's either a cracked head, bent/damaged main valves that don't seal properly, or leaking rings. That requires more serious engine disassembly to fix.

 

If you have access to an air compressor (even a small one) hook it to the #3 spark plug hole (the compression guage hose might work as an adaptor) and set the compressor to 10 to 25 psi. Have the #3 cylinder at top dead center first. Now listen for the air - where is it leaking from? Out the oil fill cap - then think rings. Out the exhaust pipe - then think exhaust valve. From the inlet to the intake manifold/throttle body (where the "over the valve cover pipe" connects) then it's an intake valve or jet valve issue. Pop the radiator cap off too... if you see bubbles in the coolant while the compressor runs then you've got a cracked cyl head or failed head gasket.

 

mike c.

[almo]

Nice one mikec you the man :aj: where do you get all this info have you been fixing these things for years or what?? great info :happy0030:

 

How do those compression figures sound in the other chambers ? could i have a somewhat tight engine (excluding #3 for now).

 

Righto, gonna do what you suggested and see what comes up. Prob gonna be few days b4 i get to her but bear with me I am keen as.

 

How do those compression figures sound in the other chambers ?

 

Thanks

[mikec]

Most mid to high mileage StarQuest engines have 120 to 125psi compression. 135+ is actually fairly good. The factory service manual spec for a fresh engine is 142psi; 113psi is the "low limit."

 

mike c.

[jwrape]

Not saying this is your issue, it's prolly not but MY newly rebuilt motor started smoking and I thought the turbo seal had blown or the PCV valve was bad. I checked both and all was good. I then found that my cylinder wall on the 4th was cracked and it was feeding the Turbo full of Antifreeze. :eek1bluegreen:

 

But your problem with oil in the front of the Turbo sounds like a Bad PCV Valve or you prolly want to clean out your seperator. Might be clogged as well. Especially if your PCV has been pushing oil through it.

Edited June 13, 2008 by jwrape

[almo]

Not saying this is your issue, it's prolly not but MY newly rebuilt motor started smoking and I thought the turbo seal had blown or the PCV valve was bad. I checked both and all was good. I then found that my cylinder wall on the 4th was cracked and it was feeding the Turbo full of Antifreeze. :eek1bluegreen:

 

Hey Jwrape i read your thread reguarding your smoking turbo (sucks man sorry to hear) and i seen the videos the smoke looks the same car even sounds the same and after seeing your write up and all the shenanigans I was very concerened.

 

So who knows yet whats up it's kinda showing some of the simptons you had but you never mentioned oil in your turbo.

 

Anyways I took mikec advice and put oil in the weak cylinder it was reading 90psi b4 and still read 90 psi after. so maybe if I'm lucky it might not be the piston or rings. I have yet to do the whole leak down test I gotta get me a compresser should have one on thursday so I'm kinda waitin till then.

 

Also while I was doin the compression test on the weak cylinder it started up which it hasn't ina while. So i put the plug back in and ran it for a min or 2. It sounded bad smoking allot and kind of a slight poping sound from the exhaust that i never noticed b4. Also i had the air filter can open and there was smoke coming out from there which i hadn't noticed b4 either, then it cut out and wouldn't start. Just thought I mention it.

 

Next thing is to do the full leak down test and try and pin point the problem on the weak cylinder 3.

 

It will be next week b4 i get to it unfortunately.

 

Thanks

[jwrape]

Yea, it'sunlikely that you have the same issue I do. I did a compression test and had 120psi on the 4th cylinder, 130 on the 3rd, 135 on the 2nd and 150 on the first. My head gasket was good but just leaking a little through the cracks in the block. :eek1bluegreen:

[almo]

So i did as mikec instructed i put a little oil into cylinder 3 and the figures did not change still at 90psi.

 

I also ran air (finally got a compressor) through #3 with the cylinder at top dead center and here is what I found so far.

 

My compressor was running round 30- 40 psi i think

 

No air or bubbles in the radiator that i could see.

 

No air i could feel or hear air coming from the oil filler cap.

 

I thought i could hear the air coming from the manifold side but I'm not sure if i was mixing it up with air i was filling in from the spark plug hole this was confusing but i think it was coming from the manifold.

 

I went to th exhaust at the back of the car I could not hear anything until i put my ear right up to the pipe. I could hear a very faint noise of air. again i wasn't sure if this was noise from me pumping air into the cylinder or leaking from the valve or something.

 

Anyways these were my findings let me know what ye think.

 

Thanks

[Bigfrog_12069]

When you did this test you had all the plugs out right? Cuz I thought you said it started when you were doing the test. Well I was allwas tought to take all the plugs out just incase you have a leak between cylinders. Just a thought not sure if someone would ok me on this that would be helpful.

[almo]

oops no i didn't have any of the rest of the plugs out for any of the test

Should i have??

 

Never thought of this at all

 

does anyone know anything about this??

[mikec]

Compression tests should always be done with the spark plugs removed and the throttle held wide open. These reduce the workload on the starter motor so you get maximum RPMs while cranking.

 

When doing the "leak down" test (pumping air into the spark plug hole) the other plugs should also be removed. If air spews out some other spark plug hole you've proven a leak exists between cylinders - probably a head gasket issue.

 

mike c.

[almo]

righto back to the drawing board

 

thanks guys

 

I'll get to it

[almo]

Righto so i know it's been over two months since i last posted but I haven't been able to get to the beast till now.

 

I decided not to pull the head off my self instead I put an ad on craigslist and found an experienced mechanic to do it for me.

I thought this way i could watch and learn something.

 

So heres what happened:

 

Cylinder #3 had 92 psi the weak one.

 

He tested it again dropped a cap full of oil in to cylinder 3 cranked it and still stayed at 92psi.

He said your rings are ok I think it's your head or head gasket just like people mentioned here.

He also tapped the valves to see if they were stuck or if there was carbon build on them he said the were ok.

 

So we talked and decide we would take off the head.

 

So when we took it off we inspected it all.

 

We found what looked like three little lines coming from the piston chamber to two different water holes in the gasket.

Now it took us some time to find these were very very small.

We also inspected the head our selves in my garage under a light he said it was ok it looked good I didn't seem to see any cracks either. So we came to the conclusion that it was just a head gasket.

 

got the new gasket in kragen cleaned the head and block put it back put all the bolts in sequence torqued them to 70lbs (15lbs for the wee front ones) put the intake manifold on did a compression test and #3 read 94lbs.

 

I was gutted!!!!!

 

He was totally puzzeled.

 

Not a good situation................

 

So I left him to it for a little while.

When I came back he told me this:

 

It's your rings, thats whats causing it I'm certain.

It cant be the valves because they were fine I inspected them with the head off . I put lots more oil into cylinder number three and it spiked up to 120lbs. (I'm thinking to my self you told me they were fine earlier)

You need new rings it's not that much more work. I would do it, you might as well you have gone this far.

 

So I am questioning the whole situation.

 

I payed the guy $400 to do all this work.

Do you think it is the rings does it make since?? I'm starting to think it does but I'm not sure.

 

would putting in lost more oil (a few cap fulls) show this???

 

should get the head checked? he assured me the head was fine and that this is not what is causing the low compression.

 

He was a really nice knowledgeable guy but really needed the money.

 

He reckons he could put new rings in cylinder #3 put it back together head an gasket the whole lot in two days and i would cos me $150 -$200 more in labor + the parts.

 

 

 

I think he is honest but could he be trying to get as much cash as he can from me. He seemed genuinely disappointed when the compression wasn't up.

 

Is this wise just changing the rings in #3 and leaving the rest. All the other cylinders were avg 130lbs.

 

Why would the rings go bad in #3 only????

 

Do you think it could be my head???

 

Should i get the head inspected I live in San Francisco does anyone know where i could get it inspected?? and how much it would cost.

 

I need to make the decision should i fix here or just let her die and buy one with less problems.

 

Any advice would be great.

 

Thanks again guys

[Indiana]

how long was this motor sitting? as is a blown head gasket and water left in cylinders rusts rings and they stick and do not seal

 

rocker arms worn? mechanical lifters or hydraulic? stuck lifter?

 

jet valve not seating?

 

carbon on the back side of valves from burning oil and very poor air flow?

 

70 is not nearly enough for those head bolts was he using a book from 1980?

 

what is in the other 3 cylinders now?

 

heads warp you know, causes valve seats to not seal, guides to tilt or twist and valves not seat square immediately, guides also wear out and cause valves to not seat properly

 

when the head was off you should have had a machine shop check it out