Separates/Component Speaker set up for Dummies???

[MANGO]

Ok, I kindda know what separates are, that's where the tweeter is separate from the woofer or big speaker itself.  Are these the same as component systems?  What's the difference?

 

Someone mentioned this to me, Indy being one other person to do so as well.  To go with a component speaker set up by the door speaker locations.  I was planning on doing 6x9s all around, back and front, none on the dash speakers.  I've read a bit about separates/component set ups and like it has been mentioned, it's comprised of a tweeter, a cross over, and a 6 1/2" or so woofer.  

 

Now wouldn't that woofer just play low tones like bass rather than hearing actual music?  Let's say I have 6x9s in the rear, and a component set up up front, when I take the fader and go with the rears, I'll hear full fledged music right?  But when I fade to the front with them being woofers, will I just hear bass or will I hear actual music as if it were the 6x9s?

 

The reason why I was going for the 6x9 set up all around was just so I can hear the tunes better with the windows down without really having to crank up the volume.  And I'm not as adept at systems installations that's why I'm trying to keep it as basic as I can, basic enough to not have to use amps even.  Component/Separate speaker set ups to me are fairly new and I'm not really sure how they're set up .

 

If someone can please explain this to me and help me using the most basic English language you can, that would be of so much help.  Electrical and audio terms and vocabulary I never really understood so just plain dummy talk would be great.

 

Thank you,

MANGO

[JustPaus_88TSi]

You pretty much have the gist of it already... But personally I hate...No, I dispise 6x9's... But that's me... The sound tends to be sloppy, but then again...I use subs for bass, and components for all the highs...

 

Your typical 6x9 will play lower frequencies than a 5.25 or 6.5 will, due to the greater surface area(size of woofer).  With the componet setup, you'll have your 5.25 or 6.5 inch mid-woofer, a .75 or 1 inch tweeter, and a crossover. The crossover ensures that the "woofer' doesn't play what the tweeter is supposed to, and vice versa...

 

What you want is a "staging" effect, or sound. The sub-frequency should come from the rear, also giving it's name to the "sub-woofer". The low frequencies are anywhere from 0-200 or 300hz. A Hertz of 25 or below is inaudible, meaning you can't hear it, but rather you feel it..If you have enough power to your sub.

 

The mid-frequency is usually more in front of you, but it can be behind you aswell...depending on personal taste and music choice. The mids can go anywhere between 400-20,000hz...So, it's got alot of range, and flexibility.

 

The tweeter will go real high in hertz, and personally i've never needed any additional tweeters, even with 2000+ watts driving a sub...

 

 

So, for you...Not wanting a sub, or any amps...I'd say if you replace the front door and rear hatch speakers with some good quality aftermarket kind, you wouldn't need a component set.

 

 

John

[Burton]

if you fade to the front with a component set you will hear full range music. The woofers play lows and the tweeters play the highs. I would avoid 6x9s, a round shaped speaker cone will throw more perfect sound, where as an oval shaped speaker (6x9s) will throw slightly distorted sound. Go look at a car audio review mag. or other car audio mag, and see how many people have 6x9s in their cars. Not too many. The nice thing about seprates is you are basicaly taking the tweeter that normally would be on the full range speaker and moving it where you want to create imaging/staging. You also gain the benifits of a good crossover. Grantel full range speakers have small basic crossovers built in, but the crossovers that come with seprates are much better and create less distortion.

 

 

 Distortion is not your friend.

 

Most people think you blow speakers by putting too much power to them. While that is true (don't put 300watts to a 100watt speaker), you will blow a speaker quicker by running distoted sound thru it.

[MikeMeyerhoff]

A componet set will give you full range sound just like a 6x9 you've been using.

 

Component sets are generally better sounding than the same sized 2-way (or 3-way) speakers.  The reason is simple...

 

When ever you have different drivers (like a tweeter and a woofer) there needs to be something to split the signal to the right driver.   This is generally called a cross-over.  On a 2-way (or 3-way) speaker the crossover has to be included on speaker somewhere.  If you look at your 6x9s there is probably a little resistor or capacitor soldered on them.  On a componet set, the crossover is housed in its own box.  That allows the crossover circut to be MUCH more complex, which will yield better sound.

 

Wiring is not much harder, you run the speaker wire from the radio to the crossover,   The crossover will split the signal, so from there you have to run 2 speaker wires (one to the tweeter and one to the woofer)

 

mm

[emann420]

Mango, imagine a piston moving up and down, now yout going to do two tests - 1. with a round piece of paper on it - 2. with an oval pice of paper on it.  When the round piston pushes on the round piece of paper, the paper reacts equally around it's radius.  When the round piston pushes on the oval piece of paper the paper distorts in a round fasion and the end result is the cone actually bends in half and then you have two sound waves coming at you instead of one.  Also known as cone distortion and cone ripple.

 

If you are concerned with sound quality always go with a round speaker.  Round voice coil + round cone = even and balanced push, if the cone/voice coil assembly is actually centered in the magnetic gap of the basket/magnet assembly.

 

If your concerned with the maximum amount of sound with the most amount of modification to your car do the 6 X 9's.  Try this, get your new radio and put it in to the stock speakers. If your happy stop.  If your not replace the front speakers with 5 1/4" component or seperate speakers, take the time (i.e. 2 weeks with your favorite music) finding where the tweeters sound best to you. If your happy stop.  If your not replace the rear speakers with the same model 6.5" , I perfer without the tweeter. (Go to a concert and stand backwards, I dare you).  If your happy stop.  If your not, add a 10" or 12" sub to finish it all off to make the sound full and lifelike.

 

Good Luck

 

E-Mann

[MANGO]

Thank you all, your advice and suggestions have all been very helpful.  It's settled then, I will forgo the 6x9s and go with a component set up.

 

That's pretty much what I wanted to know, that the component systems will pretty much play the same range of music as a 6x9 and that I can wire them from the head unit without having to use an amp.

 

Thank you for all your great suggestions and the way you've explained them.

 

MANGO

[MANGO]

By the way, this was something I failed to add.  THe reason why I was going for the 6x9s was for their RMS rating, the amount of power they're able to take without distorting, like turning up the volume.

 

They seem on average run at the very least 100 in RMS rating and the component speakers I was able to look at only come in at 55-85 RMS.  Will these component systems distort when I decide to raise the volume up a bit?

 

Thanks

MANGO

[indy_85stariones]

Adding a few comments for anyone who stumbles upon this post in the future...

 

Think of frequencies as keys on a piano -- the keys on the left side represent low frequencies and the keys on the right side represent high frequencies.

 

Now let's take it to extremes...

 

The sub-woofer is designed for super low frequencies.  Suppose the cut-off is adjusted somewhere around 100hz.  You will not hear any music above that frequency -- no vocals, no guitars and no cymbals.  You will only hear kick drum and lower notes of bass guitar.

 

The woofer is designed for 80% of musical frequency range.   The limit of its lower range is typically determined upon it's size.  A 4 inch woofer will have a more difficult time going down to 100hz than an 6 inch woofer.  The limit of its upper range is best controlled by a cross-over.  Properly programmed, you will not hear any music above that programmed frequency -- no cymbals.  You will faintly hear kick drum and lower notes of bass guitar.  You will hear upper notes of bass guitar, vocals and guitars.

 

The tweeter is designed for super high frequencies.  The limit of its lower range is controlled by electronics, so that it does self-destruct attempting to produce low-frequencies at high-volumes.   Properly engineered, you will not hear any  kick drum, bass guitar, vocals, and guitars.  You will hear cymbals and other high percussion instruments.  

 

------------

 

One of the advantages of component speakers is the ability to control the placement of the tweeter.  Generally, a person would not want to install regular two-way speakers in the door.  With the tweeters mounted so low, the sounds of cymbals and high percussion will become lost and muffeled in carpeting and never reach a person's ears.

[JustPaus_88TSi]

By the way, this was something I failed to add.  THe reason why I was going for the 6x9s was for their RMS rating, the amount of power they're able to take without distorting, like turning up the volume.

 

They seem on average run at the very least 100 in RMS rating and the component speakers I was able to look at only come in at 55-85 RMS.  Will these component systems distort when I decide to raise the volume up a bit?

 

Thanks

MANGO

 

 

I wouldn't worry about RMS ratings too much, since you aren't going to run an amp to them...ANY component setup you choose will be powered off of your deck, you will not blow them....I've had four times the PEAK power rating going to a few 6.5's with no problems what-so-ever... I'm not saying to do that, but you could rig up ten decks for power and be OK.... Trust me, it's not an issue until you start to add some amps.....

 

 

John

[MANGO]

Thank you, yet again.

 

With that said, what's the biggest diameter I can put in the door location?

 

Is 6 1/2" too big already?  I'm entertaining the idea of cutting some sheet metal if that's what's necessary to make a 6 1/2" fit.

 

Thank you all,

MANGO

[JustPaus_88TSi]

It depends on your fabricating abilities...  Also depends on what brand of speaker you're going to use. You can go slowly, cut some here...drill a hole there...Test fit...Repeat...  A 6.5 should be OK in the door, I remember someone put 6x9's in the doors, so 6.5's should be no problem.  

 

Also, if the speaker doesn't fit with the door panel on..You can try and "trim or shave" the inside plastic stuff till it fits....

 

 

John

[emann420]

Mango you will blow the speaker faster with too little power.  The 6.5 could go but I would watch the excursion of the speaker so it dosen't hit the door panel.  Check out my pics and scrill down to the pics of the door panel off and the Dynamat pics.  That should give you an idea of how much you can cut out.  Scan 38-41.

 

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/emann421/...nn421/my_photos

 

Good Luck

 

E-Mann

[RJ]

e-mann what kind of speakers are those? your door pods look awesome.

[emann420]

RJ, they are old Polk Audio MM5500 for the 5 1/4"'s and the MM3000 for the one inch tweeter.  Also haad Polk MM6500 for the rear 6 1/2" along with the 12" Orion XTR12 SVC and Alpine 3555 4-ch amps.Thank you for the kind words.

 

Mango, one trick I've learned is to use the plastic for the grill that comes with the componet set to keep the door panel off of the speaker.  Just skip the actual metal grill.

 

E-Mann

[Burton]

 9 times out of ten, power won't blow speakers, distortion will. I'm not saying to put 400 watts to a 100 watt speaker, but if you underpower or send distorted sound to a speaker its toast for sure. When I worked at an audio shop a guy came in wondering why his deck and subs quit working. Turns out he used his rear speaker wires from his STOCK deck to power his 12 inch subs.

 

  What a sea bass, his deck and the subs were shot.

[ATCLen]

Hi

 

              Lets say if you have a 100W speaker and a 50w amp, the 50w amp at 1/2 power has a good sound and at full power it sounds bad like the speaker is blown that is because at a point the amp is feeding raw voltage to the speaker and that is what melts the coil in a speak. ( That blows the speaker). Bigger the amp the better your amp runs' cooler and so does the speaker.   All amps at a point send raw voltage out. I play in a band When we play a big club we crank the system up. the speakers I  have come with a crossover in it. It has a 1157 light bulb to soak up the voltage. the buld will light up the speakers when we are on stage. to stop from blowing up the drivers ( horns) and speakers.   1157 soaks up the extra voltage

7 years never blew a speaker, at 9600 watts  (2) 2500watts RMS on subs (2) 1500

watts RMS on mids (2) 800 watts RMS on hights , I never use all the power but

It sure is very clean !!!!!!!!!!!!!! but we have made the lights come on .

[Sidkik]

I've done quite a few stereo/amp/speaker installs.. many of which we're to fix what the uninformed did incorrectly or simply didn't know.

 

The most common was using the stock deck (radio) and high quality speakers. They seem to believe that the expensive speakers with Super-Mega-Ultra capabilites can handle anything their stock deck can toss at em'. Not true. A gimpy deck can blow the most expensive speakers out there..

 

High Volume/Bass/Treble from a stock deck will cause distortion, which = death to speakers as Burton said.

 

Specific sizing as far as dash/door/rear speakers can be found at www.crutchfield.com

 

Very useful site if you're planning a new system layout (Bit pricey though).