400+HP Dyno Run

[kawika]

Had nothing but problems with Spec clutches on my MPI car , garbage, and they wont do crap about it either .

 

Despite what i've heard about SPEC clutches. I had really good luck on my previous conquest with over 300hp. Stage 2 SPEC clutch. Never slipped at the track and I dd it really hard. So, with that said. I thought based on my past experience with SPEC I would give them another try. I found out something interesting today when I talked to a rep. at McCloud. He told me that Velao makes the pressure plates for almost all clutch companies. Spec, Mccloud,centerforce etc.... the pressure plate for pull style throw out bearings are made of cast alluminum and tend to fail in higher HP applications. He said he could sell me the Mccloud clutch but the presssure plate would be the same. they just paint them there company color and put there name on them. SPEC is Blue. He said they were working on a billet plate but its now on the back burner and doesnt know when it will be in production. So, It sounds like the only thing thats different in the clutches are the discs. every company uses different materials in the discs. He also said that when they give HP ratings on clutches they are talking about what the disc is capable of holding not the Pressure plate.

basically now im really confused on what clutch to buy. don't wanna go thru all the work putting this thing back together to have it happen again.

[mstieg]

4cylFury. You got any ideas on what clutch I should try next? Want something streetable. Althought I will take this car to the track its really mainly gonna be a street car.

 

Same here. Since I'm not looking for uber massive numbers (or even need beyond 400hp), I'm going with one of the off-brand stock rebuilt clutches w/ Carbon Kevlar disk listed @ 490hp / 450tq. Browsing several LT1 Camero/Firebird forums and calling distributors gave no indication these (or stockers) were a risk of explosion at this level of hp/trq. Also Chad said the weight of the SQ being lighter means an additional 20% can be added to the hp/trq ranges listed for the LT1 clutches. That said, slippage WAS reported on these cheaper LT1 clutches and stockers at around 400-450 on those cars, so 450 should be about what to expect on ours with the T56. Cool by me, but you'll likely want something even more bulletproof that won't slip. From what I was seeing, most of the PPs are the same Valeo base even in many $600 / 600hp/tq kits, while the various disks are the main factor, unless you go with a dual disk setup (not necc. until 800-1000hp). Did your PP blow, or was it the disk? Either way, SPEC is one of the players who makes their own PP I believe...not very well from what you experienced. Good luck w/ the refund which is more than warrented, but it could be a battle.

 

You're on par in looking for a 2nd gen T56 Fidanza. The first run wasn't milled deep enough. Apparently it's an easy fix, and is described in one of the OLD threads still avail. in the tranny swap forum. I could try digging it up but it sounds like you're in the know about that though.

 

**(also - without threadjacking) if any of you reading this know where I can get a Chad T56 adapter kit, PM me!! **

[mstieg]

^ ^ haha - you were typing the same thing as me at the same time, about the rebuilt PPs, etc.

 

Browse around a few LT1 Camero forums and search for their clutch threads, which are a plenty - several pages long. I wasn't aware of the differences in throwout bearings being a potential failure point however!! Is there a better solid cast TO bearing that this guy mentioned?? I know they are expensive to buy individually, but if worth it, so be it.

 

All I know is, there were very few guys complaining of clutch failures in the 400-600 hp/tq ranges when I did my research, and what failures they did have were slippage, and not explosions.

[kawika]

 

Same here. Since I'm not looking for uber massive numbers (or even need beyond 400hp), I'm going with one of the off-brand stock rebuilt clutches w/ Carbon Kevlar disk listed @ 490hp / 450tq. Browsing several LT1 Camero/Firebird forums and calling distributors gave no indication these (or stockers) were a risk of explosion at this level of hp/trq. Also Chad said the weight of the SQ being lighter means an additional 20% can be added to the hp/trq ranges listed for the LT1 clutches. That said, slippage WAS reported on these cheaper LT1 clutches and stockers at around 400-450 on those cars, so 450 should be about what to expect on ours with the T56. Cool by me, but you'll likely want something even more bulletproof that won't slip. From what I was seeing, most of the PPs are the same Valeo base even in many $600 / 600hp/tq kits, while the various disks are the main factor, unless you go with a dual disk setup (not necc. until 800-1000hp). Did your PP blow, or was it the disk? Either way, SPEC is one of the players who makes their own PP I believe...not very well from what you experienced. Good luck w/ the refund which is more than warrented, but it could be a battle.

 

You're on par in looking for a 2nd gen T56 Fidanza. The first run wasn't milled deep enough. Apparently it's an easy fix, and is described in one of the OLD threads still avail. in the tranny swap forum. I could try digging it up but it sounds like you're in the know about that though.

 

**(also - without threadjacking) if any of you reading this know where I can get a Chad T56 adapter kit, PM me!! **

 

I've been on LS1Tech all day Thats how I found out about the McCloud clutch kits. They also speek highly of the Monster but they dont make it for the 93-97 lt1 t56 so there clutch is not an option.

I have a 1st run fidanza and I had to have the hub machined. It got pretty beat up in the PP explosion. If I buy another one I want a 2nd run so I dont have to go thru the trouble of machining another one. Its not the TO bearing that fails but the cast PP.

[4cylFury]

 

4cylFury. You got any ideas on what clutch I should try next? Want something streetable. Althought I will take this car to the track its really mainly gonna be a street car.

Before I went auto I ran an ACT clutch 6 puck spun.

[mstieg]

 

I've been on LS1Tech all day Thats how I found out about the McCloud clutch kits. They also speek highly of the Monster but they dont make it for the 93-97 lt1 t56 so there clutch is not an option.

I have a 1st run fidanza and I had to have the hub machined. It got pretty beat up in the PP explosion. If I buy another one I want a 2nd run so I dont have to go thru the trouble of machining another one. Its not the TO bearing that fails but the cast PP.

 

Good for me, that I can trust the TO bearing in the kit I have. Bad for SPEC however. I don't recall seeing many people using SPEC when I dug around the LT1 forums. McCloud seemed highly rated, I don't recall hearing about "Monster". LT1 cluches are a different breed than SQ so opinions on brands here will not necc. transfer (as you just experienced with SPEC). Case & point above: ACT rocks on the SQ, but I don't recall seeing them come up as a player at all in the LT1 clutch game. They might be, but weren't raved about.

Edited June 1, 2012 by mstieg

[kawika]

Before I went auto I ran an ACT clutch 6 puck spun.

 

ACT in a stock transmission?

[4cylFury]

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ACT in a stock transmission?

Back then I was only making 475wrhp. The ACT held great but I did go though 7 trannies.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

Over the years, I've tried spec, ACT, clutch net,center force, clutch masters and exedy clutches on the cars I've had. My best experience so far has been with the six puck ACTs. The clutch is well constructed with quality materials. The worst was clutch net, disc almost came apart on me. Edited June 1, 2012 by DieHARDmitsu.

[SidewaySStarion]

Over the years, I've tried spec, ACT, clutch net,center force, clutch masters and exedy clutches on the cars I've had. My best experience so far has been with the six puck ACTs. The clutch is well constructed with quality materials. The worst was clutch net, disc almost came apart on me.

I've had Clutch net and Excedy disks come apart on me, but I've never had a PP explosion before.

[polarisman14]

Do they make anything for more torque than the 6 puck ACTs? What's the 6 puck rated at? I remember that being a pretty comfortable clutch even in traffic so I'd be willing to entertain that instead of the clutchnet especially with your firsthand experiences.

[kawika]

I would love to try an ACT but they dont make a clutch for the LT1 T56 transmission.

[Technology]

the highest rated clutch you can buy for the stock transmission (that I've found) is the ACT 6 puck for around 550 bucks, but it's rated at 650 ft./lbs.

[4cylFury]

not a big fan of a t 56 Tranny. I'm doing a r 154 tranny swap in my blue car. You use the quest pressure plate and the supra 6 puck disc.

[kawika]

not a big fan of a t 56 Tranny. I'm doing a r 154 tranny swap in my blue car. You use the quest pressure plate and the supra 6 puck disc.

 

Yeah, I've been looking into that in the transmission swaps section. Bill does some really nice work. I've been considering switching but the T56 was so nice to drive with the 4.22 rear end.

[4cylFury]

 

Yeah, I've been looking into that in the transmission swaps section. Bill does some really nice work. I've been considering switching but the T56 was so nice to drive with the 4.22 rear end.

It's a proven tranny that will hold the power. My bell housing from Bill will be here Monday. Looking to make 550 to 650HP on E85. Nice street car. Hate to hear all the problems you had with the bad head and tranny. A good tune would have saved that head before you got the car. Good luck

[kawika]

It's a proven tranny that will hold the power. My bell housing from Bill will be here Monday. Looking to make 550 to 650HP on E85. Nice street car. Hate to hear all the problems you had with the bad head and tranny. A good tune would have saved that head before you got the car. Good luck

 

Your the one who got the last one. I sent Bill a PM and he said he sold the last one last week. You snooze you lose!!! Oh well, ill have my t56 back in by next weekend. Keep your fingers crossed that the PP hold up. If not , ill have to wait until Bill make a T56 bellhousing. He said all he needs is a little push to make them. LETS START PUSHING!!!!

[Technology]

I think the push weighs about 4000 dollars.

[Sonny_Jim]

I guess he should push harder!

[kawika]

I think the push weighs about 4000 dollars.

 

All we need is 10 people to commit 400.00 bucks towards a T56 bellhousing. Im in if that's the case. From reading posts on here. Im not the only one who wants a T56 transmission in my car.

[4cylFury]

 

All we need is 10 people to commit 400.00 bucks towards a T56 bellhousing. Im in if that's the case. From reading posts on here. Im not the only one who wants a T56 transmission in my car.

The R154 is ready done. He is going to make more. I just did a MPI for a guy that is going R154. When I talked to Bill he said he would make more.

[mstieg]

To clear up speculation of possible customers, I have everything except Chad's kit and the custom driveshaft that'll get measured once T56 is up & in. Bill's setup sounds great also, but would keep the smaller and less streetable stock flywheel or 240mm Fidanza and clutch (ACT in my case = best but tough pedal!). A cross mount, slave adapter, and rear pinion would all still be needed to go with Bill's adapter bellhousing (unless he provides it?). Also, the 6 speed gearing with a 4.22 would be pretty nice! For all these reasons plus others, I'll be holding out for Chad to finish a kit for me.

 

Kawika - will you be able to salvage your T56 Fidanza? Call Fidanza directly and they might be able to get you a new friction surface for it. Doubtful they'll make you a new one without doing a run of at least 10 flys though. The last shop to spring to make the 2nd run sat on them and lost money selling their last 4 at least by accepting ebay offers less than piecerate cost.

[kawika]

To clear up speculation of possible customers, I have everything except Chad's kit and the custom driveshaft that'll get measured once T56 is up & in. Bill's setup sounds great also, but would keep the smaller and less streetable stock flywheel or 240mm Fidanza and clutch (ACT in my case = best but tough pedal!). A cross mount, slave adapter, and rear pinion would all still be needed to go with Bill's adapter bellhousing (unless he provides it?). Also, the 6 speed gearing with a 4.22 would be pretty nice! For all these reasons plus others, I'll be holding out for Chad to finish a kit for me.

 

Kawika - will you be able to salvage your T56 Fidanza? Call Fidanza directly and they might be able to get you a new friction surface for it. Doubtful they'll make you a new one without doing a run of at least 10 flys though. The last shop to spring to make the 2nd run sat on them and lost money selling their last 4 at least by accepting ebay offers less than piecerate cost.

 

mstieg, I really like the T56 transmission with the 4.22 rear end. Drives perfect. IMO. But with that being said. I still can't get away from the pull style pressure plate which failed. I would love to by a ACT clutch but they don't make them for the LT1 T56. Only the LS1 style with the hydraulic throw out bearing. All the pressure plates that are made for the LT1 T56 are of poor quality and made by VALEO. Doesn't matter if its SPEC, McCloud, RAM or even the autozone replacement. The only thing that is different is the disc. So, when you do buy a clutch for your setup. Just go to your local autoparts store and buy a camaro replacement clutch for 200.00 and buy the disc you want from SPEC or any other company you like because its the same PP. Only thing different is SPEC paints thiers Blue and puts thier name on it and charges you way more. I found this out the hard way. (620.00 for a stage 3+ clutch from SPEC). I would really like to get Chad's input on this but he hasn't answered any of my calls for over a week.

[mstieg]

Yeah, Chad's been going through some personal stuff on the homefront and parts work hasn't been a priority for him. Hopefully you get a response soon at least. Hopefully I get a kit sometime soon!

 

I really think you just got a crappy piece from SPEC. The VAST majority of reviews & feedback on most LT1 clutches (yes, same PP regardless of brand - even cheap no-name ebay kits) are good, and those are on heavier cars, many with more hp than you. Just b/c pull-style is different than SQ push-type, doesn't mean it's necc. worse. I wouldn't give up on the T56 because of that, but it's up to you - I'm no expert. The stock fly & pressure plate are quite a bit smaller than the LT1, which is more risky and less likely to hold given the physics involved (less surface area to hold equal pressure with). Unfortunately failures are the nature of psuedo-experimental setups with 3x normal power.

[SidewaySStarion]

Well I'm going to let you in on a little secret, Spec/Act/RPM/%99 of cluch makers take a stock replacement pressure plate, remove the rivets and change out the springs in the pressure plate to increase the clamping force. I bet what happened on your Spec clutch is when they put new rivets in they clamped them down to hard and cracked the friction surface which caused it to let go on you.