there is no power getting to my injectors to get fuel to start or run

[Wattle]

I have and 89 conquest completely stock that I picked up for a project. Rebuilt the transmission. The guy who did it ran the thing dry which clogged the injectors. I was able to drive it home on just one injector, but not very quickly. I cleaned the injectors and got them spraying like new. put them back in and the car will not start. only when i put fuel directly in the throttle body, the car would start but for just about thirty seconds of running time. put new injector plugs on it. still no start. I have good fuel pressure. then i hard wired the injectors strait to the battery and the car started rite up without hesitation. Now i know for a fact injectors work very well.

 

Please some one tell me what to do next. I can not find a fuse for the injectors. i don't even know if there is one. I don't know what to do next.

[Bag-O-Chips]

you may have just toasted the coils in the injectors by applying direct battery voltage to them. They are pulsed by the ECU and never held open for too long . If you can find an ECU to swap in, give that a try first. You might have dead injector drivers.

 

-Chips

[Wattle]

you may have just toasted the coils in the injectors by applying direct battery voltage to them. They are pulsed by the ECU and never held open for too long . If you can find an ECU to swap in, give that a try first. You might have dead injector drivers.

 

-Chips

I know this is a dumb question. but what is an ECU? If i did just toast the coils inside the injectors, will they still spray after the fact. That is how i cleaned them out. I connected a bottle of injector carb cleaner and and hard wired to a battery to send the fluid through. I saw this on You Tube and tried it out. It cleaned them out very well. So Do you think that I still fried the coil inside the injector? They will still spray, but not when they are just connected how they are supposed to be connected.

[Bag-O-Chips]

It's not a stupid question, It's actually better you're honest ECU is the term we commonly use for "engine controll unit" What I meant by toasting the coils are, the pintle will have opened up so far that it may not pulse correctly because it has over extended the usual travel that it opens up... injector only open up a couple of thousandths of an inch to create the atomization in the injection mixer (where the injectors sit on). And usually are Pulse width modulated. Concentrated carb cleaner might have degraded the coating inside of the injector if it's too strong too. Usually Shops clean and flow test injectors with Heptane. Heptane is about 1/2 the physical viscosity of gasoline. Some injectors are more tolerant than others. I know for certain 20 year old injectors might be on the geriatric side of harsh cleaning solvents and may degrade if exposed to them. Not only that but our Stock injectors are known to leak from the inside out to begin with any way.

Don't trust everything you see on Youtube, because no one there will admit they made a mistake doing what they did after people have seen their video and ruined perfectly working parts to save a buck. Let me know If there's any wayI can help you out,

 

 

-Chips.

[Wattle]

It's not a stupid question, It's actually better you're honest ECU is the term we commonly use for "engine controll unit" What I meant by toasting the coils are, the pintle will have opened up so far that it may not pulse correctly because it has over extended the usual travel that it opens up... injector only open up a couple of thousandths of an inch to create the atomization in the injection mixer (where the injectors sit on). And usually are Pulse width modulated. Concentrated carb cleaner might have degraded the coating inside of the injector if it's too strong too. Usually Shops clean and flow test injectors with Heptane. Heptane is about 1/2 the physical viscosity of gasoline. Some injectors are more tolerant than others. I know for certain 20 year old injectors might be on the geriatric side of harsh cleaning solvents and may degrade if exposed to them. Not only that but our Stock injectors are known to leak from the inside out to begin with any way.

Don't trust everything you see on Youtube, because no one there will admit they made a mistake doing what they did after people have seen their video and ruined perfectly working parts to save a buck. Let me know If there's any wayI can help you out,

 

 

-Chips.

I would have to say now that I could see that being the prob. These injectors have been cleaned many times now in the most powerful stuff i could find in a matter of a week and a half. It was running off just one injector, just to get it home. the guy at the shop cleaned them once there with carb cleaner and just got that one injector going, attempting to get both clean. after i cleaned them, the car was not even thinking about starting. "But, would the car act like it was going to start if i fried the coil. would it start but flood itself out or any thing like that?" Mine is just turning over with no variations.

[Jms]

Wattle,

 

Run a resistance check on your injectors to see whether they are good. If not, you can replace them with new Delphi's (must be made to fit- either the injectors or the upper fuel rail).

 

Check to see if you have power on the black injector connector. If so, the injector's probably bad!

 

If above proves negative, check the injector resistor by the air box (right front side), on the radiator support. Check first to see whether you have power coming in. If there is, check if there is power going out to the injector.

 

If you have no power coming into the resistor, you must check the primary output pinout on the ECU. If you have voltage out of the ECU and not at the resistor, then you must check for a short or broken wire between them. The same for the connection between the resistor and the injector.

 

The black injector is your primary to start the car. A quick test would be to connect the secondary (blue) injector with the primary connector and see if it starts. If it does, you need a primary injector. If you need injectors, do yourself a BIG favor and do not buy used ones. Get the Delphi's, as they are cheap enough, if you search around.

 

Hopefully this will help you solve your problem.

 

Good luck,

Jms

[Indiana]

Rewind

 

 

 

If your injectors still open and close you didn't fry them but you didn't do them any favors. It is not possible for them to open too much. What you did using what I'll assume is 12v battery current is get them pretty hot. Eventually you would fry them and they run through a resistor so they fire at a more stable rate not dependent on battery voltage like a high impedance injector will. Plunger stroke is .1mm, or .004" and its a physical hard stop you can't over do it. The worst enemy to these injectors is water in the fuel. That water can cause the inside of the injector and the nozzle seat to rust. When the nozzle seat or end of the plunger rusts then its likely going to drip.

 

Lack of cleaning causes them to leak from the built up deposits and when they are cleaned they may be fine then leak again after some crap that was broken loose that didn't dissolve and flush out finally did and keep the nozzle from seating. Those deposits cause the reaction time to increase and that lets in more fuel, poor cycling of the plunger causes too much fuel to dispense. Low fuel pressure causes too much fuel to dispense also. A repeat cleaning can solve that but few want to mess them them. Its just the rust that is bad for them. I think it was TimC that chopped this injector open and posted these pictures years ago. These can't be taken apart to clean and the plastic on the top is pressed then heat molded to attach the pieces.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/inj03.jpg

 

The ECU is behind the passenger kick panel and the ECU is for the fuel portion of your motor, not the ignition. The ignition is the distributor and ignitor. You can run your motor if you supply it with a fuel source if you have no ECU at all. When the distributor rotor rotates past a stator pole the ignitor will open and close the circuit and the coil will fire. This is when your ignition key is "on" while your engine is cranking or you can pull the dist. out and rotate it yourself or wave some metal object in between the rotor tip and stator pole and produce a spark. When the coil produces a spark that sends the tach signal to the ECU and while cranking this causes the primary injector to fire. If there is no such signal, your tach isn't jumping while cranking or you have some problem with your ignition system then no the ECU may not fire that injector. You said you can provide fuel and it will run so that means your ignition system might be working but if there is no power to the ECU then it can't fire that injector.

 

Where does the power come from that goes to the ECU you ask? That FUSE LINK by the battery that says "ECI" up the side of the holder. If that is dirty, no you won't have any injector pulses and no it will not start. You do not have fried injectors you have likely got the common issue with a dirty ECI fuse link. Battery acid causes them to corrode and its up to you to clean them. If a fuse link stretches its burned through and must be replaced. The ECI fuse link can take a power surge of over 100amps for a few seconds and not burn out, a common fuse would. Maxi fuses replaced fuse links later on but fuse links are still used in wiring harnesses and you can get them from the dealer, make your own or clean yours or get some from a junkyard car many use them. There are two other links there and some more behind a tin cover left of the battery. If those two in the same holder are also dirty then you may not have power to the rest of the car or headlights. There is a black on in the positive cable from your alternator to the (+) battery post and its for your charging circuit and if that is blown out your alternator even if its working won't re-charge your battery.

 

You said you have fuel pressure. Did you see that at the high pressure hose, have a gauge or did you use the pump test port and hear the pump? Running the car out of gas isn't going to hurt your injectors, in stock form there are 4 filters before the injector: one in the pickup tube in the tank, one at the pump inlet, one under the hood before the throttlebody and then in the throttlebody just at the top of each injector.

 

Check your ECI fuse link.

[Bag-O-Chips]

Dang! I wake up and Indy and Jms post exactly what I have to say. Rock on guys! This is why I keep coming back to this comunity.

[Shelby]

ok you power'd the injs from the batt +,, how did you ground them to make them open,, , i don't think you use'd the car and was cranking on the injs all

that time , i have pop'd an inj hard with full batt voltage a time or two,, by that i mean i touch'd the ground to ground in a very quick way ,,tap tap tap,, if you hard wire'd the injs open with full 12 volts and a body ground odds are you kill'd them but dosen't hurt to test them , be sure to test from inj terminal to inj case for short,, if the terminal to terminal ohms is not 2.5 - 3 ohms each the inj is bad or if eather terminal has any reading at all to inj case the inj is bad

 

for future knowlege you can simply use the power wire at the inj clip to the injs being test'd ,, then to ground this way they only see 6-7 volts and are portect'd from over curent by the resistor ,,

 

to test the ecu and ihe inj circirt,, pick up a cheap inj tester, noid lamp,, it will flash if the ecu is sending pulse to the inj,, engin has to be cranking and ign has to be makeing spark for this to work

Edited June 21, 2010 by Shelby

[Wattle]

Rewind

 

 

 

If your injectors still open and close you didn't fry them but you didn't do them any favors. It is not possible for them to open too much. What you did using what I'll assume is 12v battery current is get them pretty hot. Eventually you would fry them and they run through a resistor so they fire at a more stable rate not dependent on battery voltage like a high impedance injector will. Plunger stroke is .1mm, or .004" and its a physical hard stop you can't over do it. The worst enemy to these injectors is water in the fuel. That water can cause the inside of the injector and the nozzle seat to rust. When the nozzle seat or end of the plunger rusts then its likely going to drip.

 

Lack of cleaning causes them to leak from the built up deposits and when they are cleaned they may be fine then leak again after some crap that was broken loose that didn't dissolve and flush out finally did and keep the nozzle from seating. Those deposits cause the reaction time to increase and that lets in more fuel, poor cycling of the plunger causes too much fuel to dispense. Low fuel pressure causes too much fuel to dispense also. A repeat cleaning can solve that but few want to mess them them. Its just the rust that is bad for them. I think it was TimC that chopped this injector open and posted these pictures years ago. These can't be taken apart to clean and the plastic on the top is pressed then heat molded to attach the pieces.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/inj03.jpg

 

The ECU is behind the passenger kick panel and the ECU is for the fuel portion of your motor, not the ignition. The ignition is the distributor and ignitor. You can run your motor if you supply it with a fuel source if you have no ECU at all. When the distributor rotor rotates past a stator pole the ignitor will open and close the circuit and the coil will fire. This is when your ignition key is "on" while your engine is cranking or you can pull the dist. out and rotate it yourself or wave some metal object in between the rotor tip and stator pole and produce a spark. When the coil produces a spark that sends the tach signal to the ECU and while cranking this causes the primary injector to fire. If there is no such signal, your tach isn't jumping while cranking or you have some problem with your ignition system then no the ECU may not fire that injector. You said you can provide fuel and it will run so that means your ignition system might be working but if there is no power to the ECU then it can't fire that injector.

 

Where does the power come from that goes to the ECU you ask? That FUSE LINK by the battery that says "ECI" up the side of the holder. If that is dirty, no you won't have any injector pulses and no it will not start. You do not have fried injectors you have likely got the common issue with a dirty ECI fuse link. Battery acid causes them to corrode and its up to you to clean them. If a fuse link stretches its burned through and must be replaced. The ECI fuse link can take a power surge of over 100amps for a few seconds and not burn out, a common fuse would. Maxi fuses replaced fuse links later on but fuse links are still used in wiring harnesses and you can get them from the dealer, make your own or clean yours or get some from a junkyard car many use them. There are two other links there and some more behind a tin cover left of the battery. If those two in the same holder are also dirty then you may not have power to the rest of the car or headlights. There is a black on in the positive cable from your alternator to the (+) battery post and its for your charging circuit and if that is blown out your alternator even if its working won't re-charge your battery.

 

You said you have fuel pressure. Did you see that at the high pressure hose, have a gauge or did you use the pump test port and hear the pump? Running the car out of gas isn't going to hurt your injectors, in stock form there are 4 filters before the injector: one in the pickup tube in the tank, one at the pump inlet, one under the hood before the throttlebody and then in the throttlebody just at the top of each injector.

 

Check your ECI fuse link.

there is not spot to check the fuel pressure. the reason i know it has fuel pressure is because after i am trying to start it. i have been taking off the "throttle body" i think that is the name of the part. the aluminum portion that the fuel line goes into and the over flow comes out of. when i take it off, there is a lot of fuel that come gushing out and when i just leave the fuel line disconnected, lots of fuel come gushing out. You have a lot of info her so i am going going to read it a few times and try a couple of things and then get back to you. Thank very much for all the information.

[Shelby]

DO not remove fuel lines when unbolting the inj houseing top,,

 

just so you'l know you won't be the first to burn up their car screwing with gas leaks and cranking with fuel all over

[Wattle]

U meen by fire, rite? I was kinda thinking that too. With all the electrical around that are. I was afraid of sparks egnighting the fuel that spilled ou!