Engine Build Starts

[Matt]

So i finally got the motor started after half a year. I did a fresh rebuild with dads wiseco pistons but just ran a stock set up to see if it would start, i cranked once and it started. So now i noticed the turbo was smoking and i watch the oil pressure gauge to see how it was and there was noo reading also took oil cap off and didnt see too much oil. but i put oil in the oil pump and turned it to see if it was pulling in oil and it did is it possible i couldve turned it too much were then it wont pick up?

[Indiana]

Its not uncommon for a sending unit to not work right away especially for these old ones. That can also happen from you just changing the oil. Air in there won't cause it to give any reading. If you see any oil with the cap off of the valve cover it should be pumping otherwise it wouldn't get there. Oily surfaces like exhaust manifold and turbine housing are always going to smoke when they get hot if you have touched them with greasy rags or hands or if just a drop or two of oil is on them.

[Dad]

So i finally got the motor started after half a year. I did a fresh rebuild with dads wiseco pistons but just ran a stock set up to see if it would start, i cranked once and it started. So now i noticed the turbo was smoking and i watch the oil pressure gauge to see how it was and there was noo reading also took oil cap off and didnt see too much oil. but i put oil in the oil pump and turned it to see if it was pulling in oil and it did is it possible i couldve turned it too much were then it wont pick up?

 

 

Use a mechanical gauge... even if it's only temporary- that way you know for sure if you have pressure or not.

 

If you just assume your gauge is bad and it's not, you can really hurt the motor with no oil pressure.

 

Dad

[Vnomous1]

Its not uncommon for a sending unit to not work right away especially for these old ones. That can also happen from you just changing the oil. Air in there won't cause it to give any reading. If you see any oil with the cap off of the valve cover it should be pumping otherwise it wouldn't get there. Oily surfaces like exhaust manifold and turbine housing are always going to smoke when they get hot if you have touched them with greasy rags or hands or if just a drop or two of oil is on them.

 

 

X2

[Matt]

So it was running and keeping a good idle yesterday except the facet of the oil pressure issue, today it wouldn't start so i rotated it by the crank and one like full revoulution it stops like the valve is hitting a piston,should i undo the head and turn it one more time then tighten it and see how it turns?? Edited April 2, 2010 by Matt

[Matt]

any idea's this is my first build so i don't wanna screw s*** up!!!!

[Matt]

So i had the chance of taking the head off and found that cylinder 1 intake valve seems to be stuck i back off the lifter but the spring comes up with it and is still tight ill get more of a chance to look at it tommorow also noted that i didnt see oil in the head except black oil in a pocket, so ill also check the oil pump out to. Edited April 2, 2010 by Matt

[mikec]

Sounds like the balance shaft drive chain is missing, busted, or one of the woodruff keys is missing. These keys are dinky metal slivers that insert into the end of the oil pump drive shaft and the upper balance shaft. Without them, the sprockets driven by the balance shaft chain will just spin on the shafts... rather than spinning the shafts. If the lower (exhaust side) woodruff key is missing that'll cause the oil pump not to run. There is a much larger woodruff key on the end of the crankshaft to drive both the front v-belt pulley and the large sprocket that drives the balance shaft chain.

 

Go to www.starquestgarage.com and download the factory service manual PDF file for a 1988 car, engine chapter. The stuff in the 1988 manuals is applicable to almost all StarQuest model years; I'll refer to specific pages in the 1988 manuals. Page 9-31 shows the basic setup of the timing chains, 9-33 shows how the chain & sprockets must be aligned to "time" the balance shafts to the crankshaft, 9-32 shows how the two small sprockets are installed to the oil pump & upper balance shaft (one goes "dish inwards to block" and the other is "dish forwards"), and page 9-51 shows the oil pump/balance shaft woodruff keys: items 27 and 32. And page 9-54 shows how the oil pump has to be assembled to "time" it as well. It must be "timed" so that the balance shaft driven by the oil pump is timed properly relative to the crankshaft. Also note the oil pan gasket is different between turbo 2.6 engines and non-turbo (carbureted) versions of the 2.6. If you use the carb gasket, the oil pump output gets blocked by the gasket. Dad has posted pictures of the correct gasket on his website (Dad's Starion & Conquest Parts pages) so it's easy to see if you have the right one. The small holes are what's different.

 

StarQuests are "non interference" engines. That means the pistons won't hit the valves even if the valves are open. That's with stock pistons/stock compression ratio, not milling the cyl head or block deck too much, and using a stock lift camshaft and stock rocker arm ratios. The balance shafts can hit the crankshaft though if they aren't timed to the crankshaft properly.

 

mike c.

[Matt]

i have removed the balance shafts with the kit, it seems no oil was getting througj and the head locked up cause the cam gear dowel was snapped and i relubed the head and it spun fine the block hasn't been milled but the head has been.

[mikec]

Okay, with the BSE kit installed, you still have a woodruff key on the oil pump drive. If that's missing you won't get oil pressure. Same for a missing woodruff pin on the crankshaft.

 

There should be "assembly lube" on all of the bearings: crankshaft, connecting rods, and the camshaft area. That's what lubricates the engine until oil pressure builds up on initial startup.

 

mike c.

[Dad]

I'm Sorry but a Mechanical gauge- even if used just for temporary time would have immediatley told you if you had pressure or not, possibly preventing the damage that you just described.

 

Dad

[Matt]

So just finished trying to get an air gun on the oil pump and no oil was passing through anywhere, but with the pick up off and the oil pump bottom submerged in oil it took in oil any idea's?

[mikec]

You get oil flow only when the oil pump inlet itself is covered by oil? Sounds like the o-ring on the end of the oil pick-up tube isn't the correct one or that the tube got bent/damaged sometime. That o-ring is a specific size; it's fatter/thicker than most. And the end of the oil pick-up tube must be perfectly round and the tube angle must be perfectly straight into the oil pump body to get a good seal. Otherwise the pump sucks in air around the leak rather than lifting much heavier oil through the pick-up tube.

 

Getting the lockwashers installed incorrectly can screw it up too. The factory service manual sketches show the non-turbo style oil pick-up tube... and not how the turbo style pump/pick-up mount. The non-turbo pick-up tube bolts to the bottom of the engine block - and feeds oil to a passage is INSIDE the block... it's this passage that the "turbo" style oil pump gasket blocks by the way. Anyway, if the washers are installed between the block and oil turbo-style pick-up tube that'll hold the pick-up tube about an 1/16th of an inch too low.

 

mike c.

[Indiana]

When you put in your BSEK you still have to use the gears inside the pump. The stub just goes in where the lower shaft was. The gasket on the back of the oil pump did you use sealant of any kind on it? RTV, Silicone or other goo is a no no. You can spray it or some just leave it dry, others may dip it in oil.

 

You get the ring in the upper shaft front opening so the oil isn't coming out the oil feed hole for the upper shaft?

[Matt]

i still have the gears intact,also i didn't use any type of silicone on the back i think it's the o-ring for the pick up ill soon find out.

[Matt]

got it lookied like it was alot of air in the system i fixed the oil pick up then filled oil cooler lines and then back one off and spun the gun and oil started sputtering from turbo oil feed and block to head passage,after a minute it started to come out soild

[Indiana]

Spun the gun?

[Matt]

Spun the gun?

air gun on the oil pump it was set to 750 rpm just idle of the xcar

[Matt]

so today i just tryed to spin the gear on the oil pump again and got nothing so i added abit of oil at the block were the cooler line hooks up, then i tryed to spin it again and got sputtering oil and that was it now this is getting me worried what if i put it all back toghether and get oil pressure when i prime it but say like couple days later i cant get a oil pressure reading i got a mechanical gauge now but i dont wanna put it back toghether till im 100% its right!

[Indiana]

Clockwise? You have the oil pan on and its full? How about the oring for the pick up tube is it new and its the FAT one?

 

 

 

Pay close attention as this is where your rebuild can turn into a disaster very quick if you screw this part up. You need to use a NEW o-ring on the pick-up tube and lube it before you press it into the pump. You first need to check the alignment of the tube without the o-ring to see if anyone before you has bent it. It needs to sit flat against the two holding arms and be able to sit in the center of the opening in the oil pump. If it's allowed to be installed with a gap at the sealing area you might not get the seal you need to get the oil to suck up into the tube.

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000272.JPG

 

These are both wrong ways in the two pictures below of how the tube can't be allowed to rest in. There is enough slop in the holes in the arms to be able to adjust the tube into this position. You need to center the tube.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000267.JPGhttp://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000268.JPG

 

Don't put the tube in dry-I put some assembly lube on it so it will seat easy and the lube will wash off when the motor is started. The o-ring is fatter that usual that's why it's seals so well, you can't just use any o-ring for this it's too important so get the right part for the right application; same goes for tools.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000276.JPGhttp://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000277.JPG

 

Now, you got the o-ring in so start the two nuts with lock washers onto the head bolt towers but only finger tighten them, then tap the tube around until you get the tube in the center of the pump opening then torque them down.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000278.JPG

 

 

[Matt]

yes i spun it clockwise and the pan has oil in it but not full just covers the pick up, i got the engine gasket kit off rockauto and picked up the fattest o-rig and am using it,its like the one in the picture here. ill take another crack at it today

[Matt]

got it,it was the oil pump the gear teeth were badly worn i put my other pump in boom by hand turning i was getting oil from the turbo oil feed so now time to double check evetything else and slap it back together!

[Matt]

The head first bearing on cam is scoured its just a small one could i sand it and re-use or NO!