Dave-O Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 So my Starion is running stupid rich, but I don't have the cash to get new injectors or have these cleaned/calibrated, nor do I want to spend the money on it, when I'm planning on a different TBI setup so soon. I've been having to pull the injector plugs and crank it to clear it out, then plug them back in and try again. Usually it only wants to start if I hold it at wide-open throttle while cranking, then it chugs for 20-30 seconds until a more respectable AFR is reached. It's really getting to be a pain jumping out of the car and popping the hood just to start it. Then I got to thinking. Can I just pull the ECU fuse to clear it, then plug it back in to start? Or would it not allow the ignition to fire [i figure since the ECU is a fuel-only setup it wouldn't matter]? I would most likely have a switch with an inline fuse and spade connectors going to the ECU fuse slot in the fusebox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 So my Starion is running stupid rich, but I don't have the cash to get new injectors or have these cleaned/calibrated, nor do I want to spend the money on it, when I'm planning on a different TBI setup so soon. I've been having to pull the injector plugs and crank it to clear it out, then plug them back in and try again. Usually it only wants to start if I hold it at wide-open throttle while cranking, then it chugs for 20-30 seconds until a more respectable AFR is reached. It's really getting to be a pain jumping out of the car and popping the hood just to start it. Then I got to thinking. Can I just pull the ECU fuse to clear it, then plug it back in to start? Or would it not allow the ignition to fire [i figure since the ECU is a fuel-only setup it wouldn't matter]? I would most likely have a switch with an inline fuse and spade connectors going to the ECU fuse slot in the fusebox. Pull the OVCP and d/c the injector plugs, have a friend crank it and see if the injectors are leaking. If not, you're problem is laying elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-O Posted March 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 The injectors are definitely leaking, but they're the least of my problems now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 The injectors are definitely leaking, but they're the least of my problems now. are they BOTH leaking?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-O Posted March 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Yep. Quite a bit even. Took me 10 minutes to start it tonight. Took it 4 more to overheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 The injectors can leak all they want as long as the spark plugs are DRY they will still fire and the motor will start its after the plugs get wet and fouled and that's the problem. The get wet after you shut it down not when you are starting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UlrichWolf Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Dave, Stop immediately. You are washing out the rings, and hosing down the cylinder walls with fuel. On top of that, all of the excess fuel is getting into the engine oil supply, where it is diluting your lubrication. Get the injectors fixed, change the oil right now, and then we can figure out the overheating. You are doing substantial damage right now. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkidmino Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Dumb question, but have you tried switching the clips and seeing if the wrong ones are hooked up? It's worth a try, I've seen it happen before. Secondly, do you have a black top and green top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-O Posted March 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) Already ahead of ya Tim, I changed the oil and filter this afternoon after replacing the headgasket. Last thing I wanted was fuel AND coolant in fresh oil. It sucked draining oil with 50 miles on it, but I'd rather have fresh oil than have to replace bearings and rings 500 miles down the road. I'm pretty sure the overheating issue was due to the headgasket being toast. I have tried switching the plugs around, and have found the proper routing for them now. I do have one green and one black injector, but one is from my original throttle body which is an '87, and the black is from the donor car, which is an '88. Are they different sizes? I've cleaned them out with a bench tester a friend and I made for natural gas injectors from Civic GXs, using alcohol @ 40psi and a 9v battery to open the injectors. They didn't leak while on the tester, but they did on the car, so I'm thinking they were just funked up. I do also have an '88 ECU that I can toss in, I hear this is an upgrade of sorts for '87s, perhaps that's due to a possible injector size difference? Once I get it back to running shape, I really want to get a wideband and an SAFC on this thing. Edited March 2, 2010 by Dave-O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkidmino Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Well, I am not sure if it's possibly an '86 black top. Those are bigger than the 87-89's. I ran one as a secondary in a pinch. No real way to tell unless you are looking at the orifice sizes. Do you have your temp sensor and Coolant Temp Sensor wires in the right places? They are similar clips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-O Posted March 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Good point, I'll flip the two CTS plugs around and see if that makes any difference. I can't honestly tell where some things went since I've re-wired most of the harness after the fire, else I'd "lay" the harness back in its' natural form and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkidmino Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 I do the same thing when I work on other people's cars so I'd say it's worth a shot. You've got your head in the right place, you might need to take a small break, concentrate on something else and come back to it. I know that has worked for me in the past too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-O Posted March 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Yeah, I'll come back to it in the morning. I've been a bit burned out trying to get this car on the road the past couple days. Man, that first misfire-free pull to 5k on boost was addictive. And the beautiful sound of compressor surge, ahhhhh ... amazing. It's the little moments like that, which make this car all worth it. So reminiscent of my rotaries, especially their tempers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 you're going to have to open up the ECU's and put hte 88 internals into the 87 case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-O Posted March 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Oh really? Hmm, maybe I'll pass on the '88 ECU then. Is it worth the upgrade? Is it just an issue of mounting options or are there more differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Oh really? Hmm, maybe I'll pass on the '88 ECU then. Is it worth the upgrade?Not if you ask me. Your cleaning didn't do anything alcohol won't dissolve dried up fuel its not even good for wiping off something before you spray on paint. Why don't you send off your spare set to be cleaned and get it over with? 83-85 injectors had a H stamped on them but 83s were internal and are the same size as the HThe 85.5-86 intercooled cars got an injector change and those are stamped J and so are the other 86sAll primary injectors (L)are the same so are the secondary (M)but the 87 non intercooled cars also received the primary/secondary setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-O Posted March 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 I see. Only reason I'm running the two different-year injectors is because my '87 primary is broken at the top, and my '88 secondary is broken at the plug. Both leak quite a bit from the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 It may just be the oring isn't seating well in the upper portion of the throttlebody the oring might be cut or the alum. in the TB is corroded or pitted and you might need to polish it, put some fuel on the orinng as you push it in then don't turn it after its in there it can roll up and cause it to leak so get the position you want it in first then poke it in. Always put the injector in the top first then into the base and slowly tighten the screws down and make sure you don't rotate the upper portion and have the injectors tilting or that can cause them to leak but usually its just a bad oring seal and even though that plastic is cracked that isn't going to cause them to leak because there are internal orings also that can't leak unless you just tear them up. I didn't upload the pictures but I did copy them, TimC I think it was cut an injector open and you can see its internal parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-O Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Somewhere in the teardown and rebuild of this engine, I magically fixed the rich-running condition. She starts on the first key-turn every time. I think the car's still running a bit hot, though. The stock temp gauge is almost 2/3 the way up, but it hasn't budged past that yet. I've wired the fans to a switch and as soon as the temp gauge moves I turn them on. Just replaced the thermostat with a 180* piece. Ideally I want to put an actual temp gauge on the car and see what I'm really at. I dropped new o-rings on the injectors and they haven't leaked a drop since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts