Installed MSD 6AL ignition...now I have no spark. need help sorting out wiring?

[NudeLobster]

Okay so I spent the past week slowly wiring in MSD 6AL part number 6420, tach adapter 8920, and 2 step 8739. I followed this wiring diagram from the FAQ's:

 

http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10123/msd_install_with_8920.jpg

 

All said and done, it didn't start. I started by checking for spark with a spark checker light, and it showed no spark at number 4. then I checked spark coming from the coil to the distributor with the light, and it showed no spark. So then I tested voltage coming from the orange 6al coil wire, and no voltage. Then I checked to see if the 6al was even getting voltage and the the 12g red power wire going to the MSD showed 12v. I tested all the chassis grounds I was using and they all completed a full 12v circuit from the battery. So I narrowed it down that the 6al is getting power, but isn't putting anything out.

 

I went over everything and everything is wired correct accept what seem I think is my problem (obviously..)

 

The diagram states a black/white wire and a blue wire going to the coil positive, and a blue/white wire and black wire going to negative of coil in stock form. My car had only the black/white wire going to the coil positive (No blue wire) but then it had an extra wire going to the negative...a white wire. Now this doesn't match what the diagram above shows should be there and there is no signs of tampering prior so I was thinking maybe its a difference for the years? My car is an 87...I was thinking maybe that diagram was for 88/89's with their new knock box set up?

 

here are pictures of the wires that came my coil:

 

this is the blue/white, the black, and the mystery white wire from the stock coil negative, which I spliced all together on a spade connector and connected to the purple tach adapter wire like the diagram stated to do.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc92/pocketrocket1331/Mobile%20Uploads/1326494733.jpg

 

here is the lone black/white from the stock coil positive, which I have connected to the 6al and tach adapter red wires (spliced at the boxes before my extension piece, so there is only one connector/wire at the harness/coil side)

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc92/pocketrocket1331/Mobile%20Uploads/1326494697.jpg

 

Now, I was going to just look up the wiring schematics for the ignition for my 87, but came to realize when I got on starquestgarage that the manuals are only for 88's.

 

Is it as simple as switching the white wire there over to the positive? is there any voltage to test for coming out of that black/white wire to ensure the tach adapter and 6al is getting voltage signals from the ecu?

 

Stumped as to where I should go from here. Without 87 schematics, I'm at a dead end. I can't single the problem down to either the tach adapter or 6al since they run in together. I assume the ecu signals from the stock coil wires is where I should start though, not only because of the wire mix up stated above but because they are also the only signals the two boxes share.

 

any help would be appreciated, I'd like to hear this fire up soon, shoot some fire, and have closure so I can start running all the wires back through some nice expandable woven wire loom to clean up that mess

 

thanks in advanced,

-Justin

[Indiana]

The old coil terminal connections are moved to a terminal block.

 

The only wires on the coil will be from the MSD box, no others.

 

The MSD box has two power wires, one is the battery and the other is the old ignition switch wire from the terminal block.

 

That other wire on your negative coil terminal is for the dash tach, the ECU signal wire is that blue one with the white stripe.

 

Was this a new or used MSD box? Maybe its fried. They can be fried if someone welded on the car and didn't unhook it.

 

You didn't say how that 2step was wired up but you could have got a digital MSD box with the two step as part of it and that is not in the wiring diagram. If in doubt, remove that portion for now.

[StarquestRescue]

Why the 8920 adaper? With the 8910 you retain the knock control retard and cold start advance. "Here are diagrams for both 8910 and 8920. If your still using the stock ecu this is the only way to install the 8910 if your keeping the igniter/knock box and the8920 if you are getting rid of it (not recommended for most)! "

 

Perhaps the pick up wires were color faded/stained and are mixed up? Just a guess. There may be difference between stock mitsu pick ups and aftermarket ones. No way of knowing if yours or Monty's were or are one or the other.

[NudeLobster]

The old coil terminal connections are moved to a terminal block.

 

The only wires on the coil will be from the MSD box, no others.

 

The MSD box has two power wires, one is the battery and the other is the old ignition switch wire from the terminal block.

 

That other wire on your negative coil terminal is for the dash tach, the ECU signal wire is that blue one with the white stripe.

 

Was this a new or used MSD box? Maybe its fried. They can be fried if someone welded on the car and didn't unhook it.

 

You didn't say how that 2step was wired up but you could have got a digital MSD box with the two step as part of it and that is not in the wiring diagram. If in doubt, remove that portion for now.

yes the only wires going to my coil now is the orange MSD coil + and the black MSD coil -. Instead of using another terminal block I opted to splice the wires on the stock harness side into one connector, but I don't see how that should make a difference. All the wires would still be making the circuit? I have the small red12v switch wire for the 6al ran to the black/white as seen in the picture, and the main heavy 12v power wire is ran through a toggle switch and to a terminal block that's taking 12v straight from the battery. Like I said, that showed 12v at the 6al box, so I know its getting full voltage there. Does anyone know what kind of voltage the small red 12v switch wire should be getting from the black/blue car harness side? I could then test to see if there is even a signal going to the 6al box from the harness. Also, I bought this unused from Bag O' Chips. He had this installed on his car but it was never ran, and then he switched to AEM and pulled it all out and sold it to me for a very friendly price. The 2 step just deals with the rev limiter socket and a 12v switch power, nothing to do with any of this stock harness stuff.

 

If that blue/white is the ECU signal that the MSD should be picking up... how should i test to see if a signal is being sent? I take it since its a negative that there wont be any voltage signals coming from it to test with my multi meter.

 

also, by "other wire" for the dash tach, do you mean that white mystery one or the black one?

 

Why the 8920 adaper? With the 8910 you retain the knock control retard and cold start advance. "Here are diagrams for both 8910 and 8920. If your still using the stock ecu this is the only way to install the 8910 if your keeping the igniter/knock box and the8920 if you are getting rid of it (not recommended for most)! "

 

Perhaps the pick up wires were color faded/stained and are mixed up? Just a guess. There may be difference between stock mitsu pick ups and aftermarket ones. No way of knowing if yours or Monty's were or are one or the other.

 

Nah all the wires, while pretty dirty, aren't faded much and still easy to distinguish. If there is a difference for stock pick ups...how can I go about finding where to wire the MSD to the harness? there isn't an 87 service manual online with schematics, and I have a feeling due to the knock box switch that wiring may be different for the 88/89 manual that is online.

 

I am using the 8920 box because I got it in a package from bag o chips for a good deal, and he ensured it would be fine for daily driving like I do.

 

thanks a lot guys, you guys are always super helpful!

-Justin

[Indiana]

The black wire with the stripe is the power from the ignition switch, turn the key to run or start and that wire has battery power. That little filter with the blue wire on it and its other end running to the engine to ground you can throw out for now in case its fried.

 

Do you have the little metal thing that's the resistor in-line from the negative coil terminal to the tach? This is where the 87 I think is different.

[StarquestRescue]

With the exception of the two less wires the 87 wiring diagram is drawn the same as the 88. However the 87 harness is not made the way the drawing shows it, The white wire goes to the igniter plug, and should not be an issue since the igniter is not being used. The problem is most likely in how the distributor pick up is wired to the msd tack adapter purple and red. Perhaps a wire broke in the distributor harness near the plug or where it goes into the distributor its self while the wires were being moved about.

 

Good price or not, I would recommend you use the 8910 adapter and retain the stock igniter with its knock retard feature. I believe the 8920 is sometimes used by the maybe it will squirt guys.

[Caliber308]

Hook up the Heavy red wire from the MSD directly to the Positive side of the battery without a "Toggle Switch" and install the proper Tach Adapter: MSD-8910. If you have followed the directions in the Starquest FAQ Forum on installation, it should start. I installed a Summit Racing CD Ignition box using the directions in the Starquest FAQ Forum for the MSD6AL and a MSD-8910 Tach Adapter, mine starts.

 

Bill

Edited January 14, 2012 by Caliber308

[NudeLobster]

So I found the problem to be the distributor I was supplied for the MSD...the pick up wasn't making any voltage. So, I took my old distributor and rewired it for the MSD magnetic pick up. Then I slipped up and put the distributor in 180* off, so by the time I got it installed and timed correctly, The plugs had been flooded from cranking it over. I pulled those and now the chambers are air drying over the weekend until I get back to it on monday to put new plugs in. It had choked a few times before I pulled the plugs, so I'm damn near positive it'll be up and running.

 

Now I started looking into what the knock box can still offer me if I keep it. Retarded timing at crank and at knock. Thing is, I already rewired the distributor for the MSD, and the ground wire in the stock distributor harness isn't individually sheathed...its freely wrapped around the other two mag pic up wires. This will make it VERY difficult to rewire it back to the stock harness. I feel like I might have to make it work though, cause an MSD crank/1 step retard module is like $180.

 

-Justin

 

Edit: My car is a street car. I need the stock functions. I'll get the distributor wired back to stock somehow. I just ordered 8910.

Edited January 14, 2012 by NudeLobster

[Indiana]

The wiring for the coil - terminal shows the same in the 87 and 88 wiring diagram just on 87 cars only the internal white center wire of the shielded wire for the tach signal back to the ECU is connected at the ring terminal where you see it not wrapped up in the harness where you can't and you only see that blue wire with the white stripe that jumps over to the ignitor but both those wires are tied together. You can leave the little black wire off that is the resistor back to the dash tach that plugs on its other end to the white wire leading inside the car but you can't leave off that blue wire w/white stripe (that only on 87s shows also a white wire along with it in the same ring terminal). The ignitor is what caused the coil to discharge NOT the ECU. The ECU uses that wire for one of the inputs for fuel control and to keep the fuel pump relay closed. This is why when an ignitor is dead your engine will not run and you don't need an ECU even plugged into the harness for it to run as long as you can supply it with fuel from another source, like a carburetor or just some starter fluid. The ECU gets the detonation signal and decides to tell the ignitor to retard timing and to what extent its not the ECU that retards the timing that's why to retain knock control SAFETY you need to keep the stock ignitor.