shift1313 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hey guys. Thought I would let you 4 luggers know im trying to work out some bigger brakes(front for now). Ive got some drilled/slotted nsx rotors coming. Right now im thinking about remaking the back plate to relocate the stock calipers. That would put you probably $200-$250 for a big brake drilled/slotted 4lug setup. If it works that is. The rotors are 5 lug 5x114.3 just like the wide bodies. I cant get a definitive answer on OD, it might be 282mm(austarion brake conversion) but the documentation i found says 305mm(12"), stockers are 255mm(10"). If i cant relocate the stock calipers i have the caliper bracket draw to run wilwood calipers but that is for the 282mm rotors. I took some measurements and i think i can get the stock caliper to work on a 12" rotor behind the 15"x6.5 rims but it will be very very very close, like 1/4" space or less. Again it depends on the rotors so ill keep you guys updated. Im waiting on a quote for cutting out the brake brackets now so I will have a better price. If the stock caliper idea doesnt work you would need 4 pistons calipers($130 each at summit) and you would need to upgrade the master cylinder(still unknown what will work). If this works I am not providing a kit but I will help out with brackets and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 ive got some 5 lug stuff coming but all the mock up I will be doing will work on both 4 and 5 lug cars. 4 lug cars will just have to drill 3 extra holes in the brake rotor. I have a drawing of the hole pattern i can mail out to those who want it, if this works. rotors will be here tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 i pulled one of my hubs off today to get a good look at things. There is room to just make a bracket and relocate the stock caliper in the same orientation but i drew this up which will move it to the front of the wheel. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/Starioncaliperrelocation.jpg NSX rotors are about 21mm thick or 0.827". I think the min thickness of the starion rotors are thicker than that. I measured mine and they were a bit wider than that so the caliper should work just fine on the rotor, just a matter of making sure the offset is right on the bracket which i cant do until the rotors are here. so far it seems very plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Nice. Most of the 4 luggers are running 14" rims... -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idriftnaked707 Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 im running 14 inch meshi's also, but hey this big brake setup is catching my attention, might give me an excuse to go 17's or maybe 18's. let us know how it works out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyP Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I'm gonna be running 16" wheels, but I can't say I'm thrilled about drilling extra holes just because it makes less space between them therefore allowing for something to possibly break. Granted that would take a lot of pressure, so I'd probably get over it. I'm interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 im not sure how much room is behind the stock 14s but these rotors should be 11.1" plus the stock caliper so it would probably go behind 14s. If someone could measure one and let me know the available room to work with that would be great. scotty, in this drawing the yellow holes are the ones you would have to drill http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/StarionLugAdapter.jpg also robert i figured out why the other brackets have the little pads(washers) and they wouldnt need to be welded on but i may have figured away around that. ill let you know once i have more parts for mock up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 ps, if anyone has some 16" rims for sale let me know:). id like a 7" front set and 9"shp rears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyP Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I was referring to the lack of material between red and yellow holes on left and right. Like I said it's not like it's gonna be an all race application, so I would get over it. But if one were goin for say a vintage race car build...I wonder if maybe you could weld the other holes in. I'm just thinking outloud. I really like the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I was referring to the lack of material between red and yellow holes on left and right. Like I said it's not like it's gonna be an all race application, so I would get over it. But if one were goin for say a vintage race car build...I wonder if maybe you could weld the other holes in. I'm just thinking outloud. I really like the idea. I know what you mean scotty and for mock ups i was going to pull 3 of the lugs of the hubs rather than drilling the rotor but i went the 5 lug route. the aussie guys have been doing this for awhile using 5 lug rotors and drilling them. I dont think it would be an issue simply because the load would be evenly distributed and the rotor will be sandwiched. Also in know the two yellow holes are close to the red but only one hole is really going to be a weak spot because of the direction of travel. If i get a chance ill draw something up in inventor and run a stress analysis and post the results here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyP Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 well if one got real concerned about it, they could weld the unused holes in or use block pinning procedure: tape the unused holes. Get pins (or bolts) of the same grade steel. put said pins (or bolts) in, cut off the excess so that the new brace pin is flush (modified from actual pinning procedures of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Okay so here is the update. I got the rotors in today and realized that the center hole in the rotor for the hub was too small. The nsx rotor center was 2.75", my 4 lug rotors are 3.15". That immediately shoots it out of the water for some of you guys unless i modify the rotors for you off the bat. Which it only takes a few minutes per rotor. I turned both centers out to 3.15 so they would slid over the hubs and realized the second problem. The 4bolt hole pattern that connects the hub to the rotor isnt on the 114.3mm circle the lugs are. its actually on a 99.5mm circle! I still havent figured out what i want to do yet but there just happened to be two drilled/tapped holes in the rotors on this same circle. When i have two bolts there holding the hub/rotor together one of the lug holes on the rotor slightly interferes with one of these bolt holes, otherwise it would be an extremely simple solution. Once i get the 5 lug hubs ill measure things. If the 5bolts that hold the rotor/hub together on the widebody cars is on the same bolt pattern as the lugs this will be really simple, otherwise it may not work for the widebodies. Either way im going to make these work for my car but its looking less promising for an easy diy setup. here are some pics from my limited time messing with it. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/nsxrotors.jpg they are 282mm by the way. the difference in offset between the two rotors is negligable http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/rotorthickness.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/BrakeMockUp.jpg with the rim on the car there is plenty of room for the stock caliper. I have measured but at a glance there looked to be about 1.5" of clearance. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/BrakeMockUp8.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/BrakeMockUp7.jpg Tomorrow night im going to put the caliper on the rotor and check to make sure my theoretical numbers are right and the brackets will work. I might make my set by hand for mock ups but i will update this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Venable Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) I don't think this will work for us widebody guys. Our brake rotors are sandwiched between the hub and wheel, not behind the hub like on your 4 lug. I forgot about this difference. http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/DSCF5605.jpg http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/DSCF5606.jpg http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/DSCF5607.jpg Derek Edited June 11, 2008 by D_Venable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 I don't think this will work for us widebody guys. Our brake rotors are sandwiched between the hub abd wheel, not behind the hub like on your 4 lug. I forgot about this difference. i had no idea. do you have any pictures? I know oscar and a few other members made kits for widebodies only and i have the drawings made up for those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 wow that certainly does throw a wrench in things. I had no idea they were so different. I wonder if i can use a rear nsx rotor to work on the front? they are supposed to be larger than the front but i cant confirm that. hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Well i have some bad news unfortunately. This went from being a bit of a hassle to a not so easy conversion today. so i thought the nsx rotors were 26mm, turns out they are closer to 30mm so this takes out the stock starion calipers. I could make it work with custom thickness pads and modified caliper brackets but at that point it becomes a hassle and definitely not an easy swap. To make it work you would have to buy the non drilled/slotted rotors and have them turned down right off the bat to get them to work. Im not willing to turn these slotted rotors so im going to upgrade calipers probably to wilwood 4 or 6 piston units. is anyone really interested in making this work with stock calipers? if so and you want to order the nsx solid rotors and have them turned i can keep working on the bracketry but for me its not going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 (edited) well i got some Wilwood Dynalite 4 piston calipers coming, part number 120-4998. and some ebc green stuff street pads 7001 i think. So it will probably be next week before they get here but ill try and mock up some brackets since i have the technical drawings for the calipers. Cost so far. Front NSX rotors pre 97, $114 shipped Wilwood calipers and ebc pads $344 shipped Estimated costs larger master cylinder $80 Proportioning valve $40 Misc brake lines/fittings $50 Brackets $60 so you can see this turned out to be much larger expense than hoped for. Other option, $40 nsx rotors, turned down by a local shop($15 per rotor) $80 Caliper relocation bracket for stock caliper $50(for both sides) stock calipers/pads/mastercylinder not the same performance but a much better option Edited June 12, 2008 by shift1313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 The 5 lug guys are gonna have to find a hat that fits with the will wood rotors... http://www.wilwood.com/Products/003-Hats/index.asp At least thats what i wanna do, I don't want to redrill some random bmw rotors thats for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesh242 Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 i had no idea. do you have any pictures? I know oscar and a few other members made kits for widebodies only and i have the drawings made up for those. Matt, I've been trying to get a set of Oscars breaks, but he seems to be MIA...did I read correctly (above) that you have drawings for the brackets for the widebody 5 lug setup?? Do you have any plans to reproduce those brackets? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 well i got some Wilwood Dynalite 4 piston calipers coming, part number 120-4998. and some ebc green stuff street pads 7001 i think. So it will probably be next week before they get here but ill try and mock up some brackets since i have the technical drawings for the calipers. Cost so far. Front NSX rotors pre 97, $114 shipped Wilwood calipers and ebc pads $344 shipped Estimated costs larger master cylinder $80 Proportioning valve $40 Misc brake lines/fittings $50 Brackets $60 so you can see this turned out to be much larger expense than hoped for. Other option, $40 nsx rotors, turned down by a local shop($15 per rotor) $80 Caliper relocation bracket for stock caliper $50(for both sides) stock calipers/pads/mastercylinder not the same performance but a much better option Where are you getting a larger master cylinder? The one used on the JDM right hand drive cars will not fit on US spec left hand drive cars. Brake booster is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Matt, I've been trying to get a set of Oscars breaks, but he seems to be MIA...did I read correctly (above) that you have drawings for the brackets for the widebody 5 lug setup?? Do you have any plans to reproduce those brackets? John Last time I heard from Oscar he was getting out of selling parts. I believe he had one set left, but that was a few months ago. Try Precision brakes directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyP Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 is anyone really interested in making this work with stock calipers? if so and you want to order the nsx solid rotors and have them turned i can keep working on the bracketry but for me its not going to work. I'm kinda on the fence. On the one hand, cheap parts with decent performance sounds good, but on the other it sounds like a huge hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I'm kinda on the fence. On the one hand, cheap parts with decent performance sounds good, but on the other it sounds like a huge hassle. For the money invested it would be/should be cheaper than a set of new rotors for the flatty BUT you would still need to redrill the rotor, bore the hub on the rotor and get them turned so its not an easy swap. Im going to keep looking and see if i can find a larger 4 lug rotor from an older toyota or something with more of an aftermarket that may work on the stock caliper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Where are you getting a larger master cylinder? The one used on the JDM right hand drive cars will not fit on US spec left hand drive cars. Brake booster is different. James, I dont know yet thats still in the works. Robert is getting his hands on a 300zx master and we are going to see. Its also possible that I may bore out the stock unit but i still dont know yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 (edited) Matt, I've been trying to get a set of Oscars breaks, but he seems to be MIA...did I read correctly (above) that you have drawings for the brackets for the widebody 5 lug setup?? Do you have any plans to reproduce those brackets? John Yes i did make a cad file from his drawing but there are some unknown variables. For one his drawing is supposed to be 10mm thick material. That is not the easiest thing to come by for a good price. And i dont know the caliper offset. Once i get the 5 lug hubs and rotors here i will be able to see how things are going to fit up. Are you interested in using 300zx calipers or do you want to go with something else? I saw a set of wilwoods on ebay(brand new) with no bids for $50 right now. I couldnt use them because they are for 1" thick rotors and the nsx rotors were too thick, but they should work on stock rotors if thats your plan. Im not sure with oscars kit if he did anything with the master cylinder or not, i know his kit did include wheel spacers. Edited June 12, 2008 by shift1313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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