Ramquest

With the Griffin radiator I only had enough room to run 1 fan.I did a bunch of reasearch on fans and finally ended up with a 16in Spal race fan-but it only moved about 1500cfm(max) and that just isn't enough in Texas in summertime to keep it as cool as I wanted it to be(routinely to 3/4 on guage,that with about $500 invested). I thought for the amount of cash I was spending I could get better thermal headroom than what I was getting. One thing for sure...Your cooling system is not an area to go cheap, because if you don't get your combination right your cooling system will only work the same or minimally better and you just flushed your bucks.I know because I've flushed hundreds. The relays are Hella, 2-30amp( made together)Driving light relays w/power wired directly to battery,stock LOW-temp switch sends command.I upgraded all fan wiring to 12-14ga (16ga was stock with relay kit)shrinked all the way to sealed connectors at fans.

Rodding is where the radiator shop (after removing tanks on radiator)run a "rod" the size and shape of the cooling passages(that run vertically)thru the cooling passages to knock-out scale,rust ,whatever build-up junk has collected over time to ensure maximum efficancy of the core you are using.It doesn't make it better than stock -just as good as new stock.You may be able to wheel&deal with shop to get a better "core" installed(bigger passages ,more of them etc..)for not too much more as long as it is an in stock item.I paid big $ for a specific core with the size, strength and # of cooling fins per inch I wanted(I reduced the # of fins per inch to increase flow and allow fans to move more air w/less restrictions plus my fans don't come on at highway speeds-I can flow enough to keep cool ).

Some guys can probably get stock one rodded-out for 1/2 the price of Griffin and Griffin didn't exactly drop in - it really took some work if you want fit and finish. Questers in cooler climates can get away with alot more than us guys in hell(the temperature not the state-I love TX ;D).Tell me how to get my pics on this-I have no website to pull from and I'll show my install.If you hooked your relay to batt & both fans to low temp you have to be doing better.The griffin was not as impressive as I had hoped,looked good but not enough room to pull serious air through and I can't drive 160 all the time

I understood completely about exhaust.No futher explanation was necessary. Forced Performance's site has picture at bottom of Starion turbo web page of a turbo "cartridge" this " cartridge " works in any relation to housings at either end. I believe you can do everything you said to make it work,you just don't need to modify the lines going to it.Check exploded view of turbo and you'll understand relationship to housings is arbitrary.I believe Majestic Turbo has one on their site.If still uncertain contact them and ask if you can re-position cartridge separate of intake and exhaust housings.I'll be looking forward to your reply after talking with them.My comments originally were to inform not re-buke this modification-this is not the first time this mod has been done before,I'm sorry if I stepped on anyones toes that was not my intent.In the short time I have been reading posts on this site I have noticed alot of people with the technical knowledge to bolt on parts giving advice on items that often times required 1000+ technical engineering man hours just to develop and produce and USUALLY the people installing them have no idea whatsoever of the hard work that went in to developing them.It's great to experiment with your stuff- but its entirely different when you experiment with others.I understand alot of the difficulties in doing simple transfer engineering because I've done it .I understand turbo construction because I've taken so many apart .I have no doubt you'll get it figured out and it will work well,I would just be conservative with others engines during development.Sorry for any offense. :'( P.S. I have 20yrs w/high perf applications,incl 3yrs fabrication and forced induction,machinist, gone on to high perf aircraft construction and turbine(jet) modification,and done R&D and proto-type development and fabrication. Peace and Truce

The compressor outlet side has a LARGE c-clip securing it to the center section,it also can have any orientation in relation to center section.Keep the exhaust housing the ONLY way it can go, keep the compressor housing how it SHOULD go to attach to "hose" and center section can be rotated to ANY position in 360 degrees-obviously we want to rotate it to work with stock lines to conceal turbo change. Note*We have people discussing a major mod to a critical item on our cars and they don't understand the basic construction of the item being modified.This should make you nervous.While I believe this modification has merit and potential lower cost performance gains,PLEASE DO YOUR OWN REASEARCH with individuals familiar with turbo-charger construction and clearances .You cannot just slap pieces together and expect it to work properly or last.Turbo internal clearances are critical to proper operation and efficancy.

What changes did you notice after changing?What performance did you notice?

Do I have to change my harness connection to isc or will 86 wiring work? What gains should I expect?

Hydraulic pumps are an efficient way to do work.The impeller (on new turbo) is amazingly small,so your really after pressure rather than volume-so a giant pump is not needed.Parasitic losses are kept rather constant through-out power output(changes)although increase nominally at higher rpm's (compared to centrifugal or roots type blowers).Superchargers demand large amounts of energy,especially roots type blowers but you get a big kick(at lower rpms) and to keep it going at higher rpm's you need a larger pump which increases energy required.A larger blower at lower rpm's DOES NOT have the lag of a turbo, it just requires more energy to turn it.Most people who have one enjoy the gains so much they don't miss the energy loss.For a TRUE street car(not race car) the response of a Blower is hard to beat( with the exception of hyd powered turbo).I have installed blowers on a wide variety of cars(including offshore racing applications)and the instantaneous response has to be felt to be believed.Clearly blowers have a place in perf applications(otherwise John Force wouldn't use one,they move the ENORMOUS volumes of air-required for making 6000+hp),but most of us don't have those type of airflow requirements. The hyd-pwred turbo offers the advantage of efficancy(better pump design) and separation from engine rpms from "traditional" compressor types opening amazing possibilities.Think about it you could go with a much larger "turbo"than you could traditionally because you control rpm's(to turbo) independently of engine rpm's. "Turbo" could be rpm "optimized" for even more efficancy(because YOU control rpms it runs at).You could also go the other way if high rpm(volume)was not an important factor in your setup.This idea(hyd-pwr turbo) is the logical next step and wave of the future. Don't worry about your turbo going the way of the dinosaur anytime soon though. It will take some time to come up with a universal reliable setup tunable for all applications-although hyd-pwr turbo has enormous potential and I'm hopeful of a quick solution(I want one).A turbo-charger(traditional) is still the most efficient design for constant high rpm engines(high exhaust velocity, losses are minimized)that's why they are so widely used in aircraft and marine engines. ;D

If I change ecu and injectors(I assume)with 1st dsm mas, will ISC on my 86 work ok? What kind of perf gains should I get(did you get)?Will I have to reset anything or will it just work?

Exhaust hose?I don't understand.For what ?If this turbo's center-section is same as ours(as it appears to be) oil on top ,drain on bottom,coolant inlet and outlet on either side, it makes no difference its orientation-only the exhaust housing bolts to manifold- you CAN rotate center section to stock orientation.Did you not know you could rotate this section?

One final note-If you live in a place that just doesn't get that hot.A clean stock rad w/180 deg thermostat ,better relays(if you choose) and wiring both fans(or running flex-a-lites) to low temp switch (they both come on at once-puts you ahead of thermal curve) will probably be adequate for you. tep relays-$45 rad cleaning (varies locally) $75-$110 180deg t-stat-$10 or less Flex-a-lites-$189 from Summit + usual Note*I HIGHLY recommend relays when I checked stock voltage I was around 10v after relays(they are wired directly to batt)initial v14.5 drops to upper 13's to14v 40% improvement- fans will haul a**.You will notice the difference either way.

I read in an article a while back about using the compressor section of a turbo with a small hydraulic impellor run by a hydraulic pump(like power steering pump). Running a variable hydraulic valve they could make any boost anywhere they wanted the unit is small ,could be hid out of sight, and increased engine volumetric efficancy from removing exhaust section.Unit runs MUCH cooler than a standard turbo and would definately reduce under hood temps.The article said they could create any powerband they choose with no lag whatsoever and always had boost at whatever level and rpm before they needed it.This unit spins at same Rpms as normal turbos -just by hydraulics instead.Your biggest problem would be where to hide it ?Maybe in a fake looking battery?Hmmm ;D

Just a question.Why didn't you just loosen the marman clamp around center section of turbo and exhaust and "C" clip around intake and center section and rotate center section to stock position? Stock lines would work with-out bending anything.Center section of turbo works in any relation to intake and exhaust housings.

Ok guys heres the straight dope.I live in TX,it gets real hot here (over 100 deg 25 days in a row).I've done 2 set-ups on cooling system, I'm now on my third.1 stock- no good. 2 stock w/tep relays & flex-a-lite 2500cfm fans-- better.3 custom fit Griffin 1000hp alum rad w/16in Spal thinline racing fan--no better than #2(you end up trading radiator efficiancy for air-flow - single Spal only moves about 1500cfm at best and radiator thickness prevents using anything else, plus end tanks on sides prevents using larger fans).4 Modified stock rad w/staggered 1/2in 3 row severe duty core using aforementioned flex-a-lite w/tep relays best.In all cases I used 180 deg thermostat and on final setup I also upgraded ALL relay wiring to 12ga shrink wrapped all the way to sealed connectors(at fans) and installed 30amp fuse.I'm unfamiliar w/ford explorer setup but would like to see pics.Thats my $1200 worth of cooling experience.Save your money go directly to #4 then your done.